Ep10 - "AGE PLAY: From Diapers to Diplomas" with Paul Ruloff and CherryWatermelon

Ep10 - "AGE PLAY: From Diapers to Diplomas" with Paul Ruloff & CherryWatermelon

Paul talks about his past work with Ageplay, delves into Ageplay-related questions as well as talks about the Ageplay events that he runs in St. Louis.  

Paul Rulof aka RuleOfThree, has been part of the alternative sexuality community for over 10 years, largely focused on promoting and educating about age play.  During that time, he has engaged in many activities that have helped hundreds of people learn about, explore, problem-solve, and think about their interests in ageplay.  He has started and contributed to many different ageplay projects He also has the non-fiction book “Ageplay: From Diapers to Diplomas” and is working on a book solely for Caregivers. 

cherrywatermelon (she/her/hers) is a passionate kinkster, who loves to talk about all things kink, and sex. She spent many years as an adult store manager in Canada which has led her to be able to combine her knowledge of sex toys and kink. Creating and fostering an inclusive environment for all people is her goal. 

• Fetlife.com/RuleOfThree
• Fetlife.com/CherryWatermelon
• Book: Age Play: From Diapers to Diplomas

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SINagogue hosts and guests are subject matter experts but not *the* expert. We believe outside of violating consent, there's no wrong way to kink except to think your way is the only way. The show is presented from a RACK (Risk-Aware Consentual Kink) point of view, not SSC (Safe Sane Consentual) because each person’s definition of safe is different based on their risk profile. Use of the word "safe" on the show fits our definition, and that doesn't have to be your definition. 

Reminder, we try to make our content as inclusive as possible regardless of gender, orientation, role in the lifestyle, etc., but we do inherently speak from our own point of view. We want to learn from our mistakes. If you feel like we said something offensive, let us know. Reach out via our website or call us at 469-269-0403.

Today’s show was brought to you in part by the letters S and M, and the Number 69. 

*San Dimas High School Football Rules*

Chapters

• 1:32 Intros
• 4:16 What Is Age Play
• 11:32 Types of AgePlay
• 18:25 On Brats
• 25:14 Introductions to Age Play
• 37:33 Pets and Littles
• 37:37 Maximize Your Age Play
• 40:36 Veruca Salt
• 47:17 24/7
• 53:59 Regression
• 1:06:04 Inside the Kinksters Studio

Transcript

1:14

Hosting with me today is my partner my ADHD squirrel wrangler my Submissive my brat my little my pony or just my little pony The Nate dog to my warringy little bit. Oh my gosh This is episode number 10 and with us today is Paul Rulof and his partner Cherry watermelon Thank you for having us on here to talk to us about age play Paul talks about his past work with age play Delves into age play related questions as well Talking about age play related events that he runs in St. Louis But first a word from our sponsor Paul Rulof aka rule of three has been part of the alternative sexuality community for over 10 years largely focused on promoting and educating about age play during that time He has engaged in many activities that have helped hundreds of people learn about explore Problem-solve and think about their interests in age play He has started and contributed to many different age play projects. He helped found The Chicago age play players founded Capcon the Midwest age play convention and the St. Louis age players He also has the nonfiction book age play from diapers to diplomas and his working on a book solely for caregivers He also lectures across the country and internationally largely about age play mental play and age play relationship Dynamics he has presented age play topics at many different alternative sexuality conferences clubs and events all across the US This includes addressing age play at cars an alternative sexuality academic conference for professionals including health care workers and mental health professionals He also has served as an expert witness on age play for Texas Supreme Court case Paul is also a therapist and coach serving alternative lifestyle individuals Cherry watermelon she her hers is a passionate kinkster who loves to talk about all things kink and sex She spent many years as an adult store manager in canna which is letter to being able to combine her knowledge of sex toys and kink Creating and fostering an inclusive environment for all people is her goal She brings with her over nine years of being involved in the kink community both in St. Louis and her hometown of Niagara Falls, Canada She identifies as bottom middle princess and emotional massacres She is co-host of the age play munch in St. Louis as well as the age play fun days She believes kink should be a safe place for everyone to explore Thank you for being here in the synagogue Let's talk about age play. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, so we'll start off the bat with what is age play and what isn't age play? sure so age play is Basic there's so there's two different kinds of age play to start there is either role playing or a ratic role playing and a lot of times we can see this in the the mainstream porn such as schoolgirl teacher or naughty schoolgirl or cheerleader type fantasies And then there's also regressive age play where people kind of Walk back in their own personal timeline to an earlier more innocent headspace and age play in general is role playing or regression that takes us to a different age a lot of times it's more for that Innocence that fun that that people want to have a lot of times there's vibrant emotions in there as well age play is not largely the thing that I talk about most is it's not pedophilia it doesn't create a minor it doesn't fulfill that drive in those individuals a lot of times there is innocent fun play like going to the zoo other times it's darker more spicy age play that does have some sexual components as well and it also really Mary as well with folks who are diaper lovers sometimes Brandy did you have anything you want to add? Just to reinforce that you know age play is between two consenting adults Very good so why do people enjoy age play? Well, I think for a lot of us It allows us to go back to a time in which maybe wasn't so good and we get to recreate some experiences That we didn't get to have that help us Maybe heal some of those parts in us and move forward In a better headspace Maybe You know there's a lot of trans folks who are into age play who get to re-experience Growing up in the gender that they are and not the gender that they were assigned at birth And at least for me from the caregiver side it's really an opportunity to Help people grow help people Shape kind of impart wisdom provide that guidance and sometimes really see Actual change in people's lives because of that age play dynamic so for example, I I taught Brandy how to drive she had not driven before she tried back when she lived in Niagara Falls, but it was A lot of anxiety a lot of fear and just like a real parent I took her aside and we went through the whole driving process from Getting her just into the driver's seat until when she finally got her Her driver's license And then we went through the terrible teenage years of driving I've also heard that the concept of the shrinking childhood can lead to people Embracing age play as they get older The Putting adult responsibilities on children before they're ready to do that and then going back and wanting to reclaim that childhood And that's definitely something that at least I've heard an awful lot of especially from From the oldest daughter in a family who is often Really kind of run over with a lot of caregiving responsibilities when they're very young I've had folks like Tell me that when they were eight they were cooking dinner for the family or The primary caregiver for the younger siblings or things like that I think very much in this post pandemic world we're due for an age play explosion in a few years All the kids who got stuck at home with their younger siblings watching them basically all day long and taking care for them Well, mom and dad still how to go to work close schools closed Um, I think it's just a matter of time Yeah, I mean I can echo that as you know the oldest daughter the oldest cousin and the oldest granddaughter Don't find right there with you exactly you feel it it it is a way to Lesson that load that you've carried around your entire life and get to um Let somebody take care of you and and be vulnerable and What from the big side what do you get out of it? I think really If we're talking about demographics, I think we are definitely due for an explosion of biggs as well because people are having less children and I would so I don't have any actual physical children um, but I'm able to tap into that parenting side through age play and helping brandy along and being her daddy that I I kind of miss out on by having by not having actual biological children and so it creates a It creates a source of satisfaction for you without the I wouldn't say responsibility, but even just the you know actual you know of having biological children you can still satisfy part of that aspect for yourself definitely and So brandy is a middle an age player who focuses not necessarily on The the childish aspects, but more of the adolescent and teenage ones so As a daddy for her we didn't have to go through diaper stuff or feeding her or anything like that we just Kind of take the really fun activities of Going out and doing stuff or working together on projects and and run with that So let's take a minute and for listeners who maybe have never Delved into age play before let's define what little and bigs are and What different types there are? Sure from the big side there's generally a breakdown of of caregivers versus bigs and how I conceptualize it is caregivers are people that that provide care to their non-caregiver partner their people that actually care and this is usually a mommy daddy Big brother sort of role and awful lot of the times There's as a big you can also have age play scenarios that don't involve Being beneficial to the the non-caregiver partner so we could do an age play medical scene where it's the big scary doctor and The the little kid having to go in and get a shot or something like that and that would be more of a big Versus a caregiver because they aren't necessarily doing positive stuff I Like how you put that it's not always positive stuff And I can foresee the you know in that aspect of being a big even if in general you might be a daddy or a mommy or a caregiver in the scenario of You're a big and you know you've decided to do something Scene-wise with the little and say it's like as you were saying, you know the big scary doctor You know getting a giving a shot will then that you're incorporating age play and maybe needle play at the same time And age play is definitely an umbrella fetish or kink where a lot of stuff falls underneath of it You can play cowboys and indians and have rope play in there as well or Really a lot of stuff just falls into that that you can really customize Little's would start at you know, you can be an adult baby where you Where diapers and prefer to be in a crib hand-fed non-verbal I would say that's a lot of like infant play and then Little's tend to be At the toddler stage up until I would say six or seven in age and then you would have A lot more like coloring movie time Some fun arts and crafts You would probably be the little that's scared to go to the doctor and get the needle um And that age range um and then you have Middles and A tend to be anywhere from ten I'm gonna say ten to eighteen I know there are some older middles um They tend to be In my experience more involved in the sexual side of age play as well as like the naughty babysitters um So middles can fall into being On the little side but also the caregiver side because I also know a lot of middles that when we're around little's We tend to be like oh no you dropped your sippy cup and we like help them and um kind of take care of them too so you get A like a middle ground there which is fun and fun to play in Yeah, the middle's just kind of our our kind of get to play a little bit on both sides um and like I said they tend to fall into the more um sexual part of it um My middle is very angsty and Living out my goth fantasies that I wanted to live in when I was you know 1314 and didn't have money and now I do and so I can Really create a space for myself that makes that part of my childhood really uh happy I mean I know a lot of people use age play and DDLG daddy don't little girl interchangeably But it's I think it's important to remember that uh Any gender any orientation Can be used in age play Mommy's daddy's caregivers Little boys little girls little children Whatever Yeah, it doesn't I mean I think DDLG relationships get a lot of attention especially like on tick-tock and whatnot um it's pretty prevalent but age play relationships and age play dynamics can involve Anyone any gender any sexual orientation. It's not just heteronormative and really the There's opportunities for Having family roles as well as non-family roles in there as well So yet it may be DDLG, but it may also be just Two middles hanging out at a store or Little is going to the zoo or something along those lines So what other kind of things do people do in age play for a scene for play a lot of times there are Some branding dynamics that people enjoy and other people enjoy being good girls and Brandy can definitely Talk more to that But I think one thing that as a big I really enjoy is Being able to show people stuff that they haven't before So whether that's going to a museum or Whatever sort of outing it is or else Sometimes just the care and affection that That people may not have necessarily had during that that portion in their childhood and for people who During the day they have a hard job and a lot of pressure are able to just kick back and relax and Play with Legos or get into a cartoon or whatever that is seeing that That stepping back that freedom is something that I I especially love Yeah, I I think when I'm When I'm thinking of scenes and I'm thinking of people play um Definitely so for me I I don't think I'm a brat um I might be a little bit mouthy, but 99% of the time I'm gonna do what I'm told maybe Not with enthusiasm, but I'm definitely gonna do it um So I feel like I feel like Brats definitely fall into a little bit of the age play and you know you can see a lot of scenes where there's like spanking going on and there's some fight back um Or you know some melting off to try and get like a harder spanking um I think that I tend to brat if I'm bottoming with somebody else. I try to get them in more trouble than I can get into um That's usually what I you know, I'll be like oh they said this you should hit them harder and you know so that I can have a breather um And then I usually get it back because they're like oh you bitch um but But yeah, a lot of I think age play could be mixed into any kind of like BDSM play as long as It's talked about before you know if you're doing pick-up play with somebody who doesn't feel comfortable with You're a little side then you know you want to talk about that But if you've got if you're playing with your Dom and your Dom is also your daddy I feel like those aspects of of your dynamic come out Whether you want them to or not they're there They're always prevalent um Like Paul and I we slip into our dynamic Throughout the day at so many different times so when we play it's hard not to Have that come out too, right? There's points where I'm you know I'm being obedient and I'm listening and then there's parts where I'm pouting and being like daddy. Why are you hurting me? so So yeah, I think I think it just can be around with everything and it it flows through It is really a natural and fluid progression at least the structure of our relationships because sometimes she might be needy or wanting support or Whatever that is and it's perfectly fine and other times it's just fun or sexy or even Harder with with punishment or something like that You mentioned brats brats have a uh, let's say controversial reputation within the communities How do you define brat and I'm going to assume since you identify as one? Why do you feel that uh That bad reputation is not quite deserved so Mm so I'm good to say sometimes Brats deserve the reputation that they get Because I don't think they necessarily Ask for consent when they're bradding And I think that that's important. I think that you wouldn't um You wouldn't go up to anybody and just smack them across the face if that's your kink Without consent and I feel like Bratting is the same way if you're gonna brat It needs to be consented by both parties Not every top wants to be a brat tamer Not every top can be a brat tamer um And I feel like I feel like sometimes in those cases the reputation is deserved however For the most part it's Yeah, so brats need it needs to be consented on by both parties I think it's important that if you are a A really braddy brat and that's something you do all the time That you need to have a safe word for your top when they're really are just done with your shit and And you need to be able to stop like with anything There needs to be a way to just be like okay. I'm really done can you can you just fucking go pick up your socks You know what I mean and um and just be like this is like we're done with this whole thing go do what it is that you need to do um But I think for the most part it's playful and it's fun and it can be Kind of sexy to be like I'm not gonna go do that and then you get grabbed by the back of your hair and made to go do that Or by the side of like you know by the your earlobe and you're like no you are going to do these things um, so I don't think it's A general deserved bad reputation that they get I think it should be based on the individual and who they are in the community and that they are aware of what they're doing At least from my side I see brats as contributing energy to the scene or else Kind of egging their partner on To be more intense or to provoke that reaction And a lot of times when When people know each other well that Let's the brat have a finer amata control and Brandy can do whatever she does to Make me spank her tougher or Biter or whatever it happens to be and sometimes that encouragement is really Needed or necessary and it's kind of a shorthand for saying hey, can you up that intensity or can you Can you do this without formally laying it out there? The question also would then be you know between the two of you um, you know essentially more of a bit of a blanket consent when it comes to braiding um is there So that way it's not negotiated each and every time of like I'm gonna breath today is that okay? Yeah, definitely It's definitely there is a blanket consent But at any point, you know Paul could say like I just I just need you to do the things and I'd be like okay understood, you know and And you and you get that like okay. I got it today is not the day Yeah, yeah, like of course at any time, you know consent being revoked and and all of that But I mean to initiate it it's that like it for and then And then you know if he's just like nope not today. This is nope Even without the say for it or whatever it's just you know the difference and it's like all right Let me back off. Let me just do the things right and I mean vice versa, right? Like sometimes you just don't want to be talked and sometimes you're like you know what? I'm just so not in the mood to be told what to do today. So You know it's It's blanket consent for both of us, but we are able to kind of Understand what we're doing and what we need from each other Sure, I mean anything done without consent is not kink in my book So if it's a brat who doesn't have consent then they're not a brat. They're just an ass. Yeah plain and simple yes So my introduction to age play was literally my first Night involved in kink met somebody online. We went to dinner. They're telling me out Me about the different types of power exchange they mentioned daddy dumb little girl I went that's it. That's me What is that? For a little bit her first experience was with me We were just beginning talking and she kept saying things. I'm like are you sure you're not a little I'm not a little are you sure you're not a little Not a little and then one day her response instead was I is not a little And haven't looked back since then so what is one your two's introduction to age play and For those who want to introduce their partner to age play who want to explore it How would you recommend them getting into it? So my introduction to age play and because I'm an old dinosaur there wasn't really much available Online at that point that I was able to find other than A lot of times the adult baby stuff and I knew that wasn't necessarily My cup of tea There Was a website called little girl lost where whoever ran it Had kind of The different ages that they enjoyed playing and it was also very very kind of gothie as well um And it was really kind of a struggle because without Without a lot of education without a lot of community knowledge It was it was really kind of an interesting point because I would I really had to question myself and say you know Am I a pedophile I love Plads skirts I love that concept of innocence but yet The girls that I were looking I was looking at were in their 20s 30s and 40s So I was able to rule that out but there was a good amount of time where It was a real questioning thing because we didn't have the sexual education and The knowledge of the fetishes that we that we do now Even when I started teaching probably 10 years ago or so a lot of the communities that I visited This was the first time that they had heard about age play as well so that I feel like it was kind of a rocky start for me until I was able to find people that could really reinforce that and And say you know what I love being treated with That care or I love you dadying me and then that kind of took off um Well, I will say you were one of those people to me who was affirming of that identity My first kink convention five months later You're there teaching a class on age play so thank you for that really been blessed to go to a lot of different areas and and provide that reassurance because I mean I kind of grew up kinkin chicago and There wasn't really anybody that Talked about it or did it we had one age play class at a convention that I went to and I was like This is only looking at such a small fragment usually the adult baby the very the very much littles and it didn't talk about caregivers at all either And that's what really kind of inspired me to To go out and teach and kind of spread that word there as far as As far as seeing if other people are interested in it there's I guess sometimes that carefree aspect or that little bit of innocence that That is kind of that spark And just like you said with little bit you know other people can kind of see that as well and Maybe they do ask you know are you a little and After a while there is some hesitance and some pushback from From a lot of people who eventually do say that they're littles and I'm not sure if it's just the stigma of the irresponsibility or of play or That Not being one wanting to be seen as a kid um or childlike because our society Really values independence and hard work and whatnot But a lot of folks who start out by having other people noticing that do kind of Explore and some of them are like yeah, I really am a little And while society kind of looks its nose down on Age play both the king community and the vanilla community You go and look in popular culture and there is just so much stuff that is Age play like the Halloween costumes for cheerleaders and schoolgirls and whatnot or songs like Hot for teacher nobody will convince me that is not an age play song or Uh Father figure yeah or I mean those are are very explicitly age play songs There were some that are more subtle and whatnot Odadi by Fleetwood Mac um But also tell me hot topic is not age play central I couldn't try harder Just gonna say and Cheerio watermelon. Yes and and your origin story. How did you how did you get in it? Oh, um so About 10 years ago is when I kind of discovered my kink side so in my early 30s and um I found tumbler and if you remember, you know 10 years ago tumbler was like at its peak of like bdsm blogs and stuff like that um and So I had a pretty decent size following on tumbler and uh, I actually met my ex-husband on tumbler and our dynamic started off as the very uh traditional ds dynamic um and then I I knew that so I'm just gonna be completely honest. I knew I was little. I didn't want to admit it um It was more palatable for me to say that I was a kitten and I wanted that kind of care and affection in my play as well rather than uh rather than just out and admit that I was I was little and I didn't really know where I was falling in the little um space I I didn't want to admit it because I'm super close to my dad and I was like oh god am I weird? I don't want to fuck my dad like what is wrong with me and I had to go through a lot of that to be to get to where I where I was and when I finally admitted to my partner well my partner said um it's time to go to bed and I just without thinking went okay daddy and that was it and it just hit hit the ground running and that's that's where we went um and then I came out to I actually had to come out to my friends in kink because I was stepping into the scene and I was really nervous about telling everybody that I was a little and I was like I don't know how they're gonna react to this no one had ever said anything bad but I had heard you know people outside of my circle not you know being like little or so annoying and they're so this and they're so that and so when I told my friends they all just looked at me and they were like yeah no kidding and I was like oh so it's obvious to everybody okay great um and and then from there it really um it really just kind of became part of my kink yeah very cool nice so how much for you does the kitten identity overlap with the little identity are they separate are they intertwined are they overlapping so the funny thing about kink is that you were forever changing and um I do not I am not a kitten um pet play for me I tried and I I felt like that was more comfortable but I am not I am not a kitten any longer that part kind of just fell to the way side though recently I have discovered how much I love hukau so that is definitely more aligned with my with my kinks uh because I like I like the dark side of the stuff like sure the fun and innocence is great in all but like my emotional massacism really is I would say my my most prevalent and the kink that gives me the most back so you know dark age play is really where mind and pause play exists um and then saying with hukau I kind of like how there is like this light like prettiness to the cow but then also like a darker side does that make sense yeah okay that's fair yeah absolutely I mean we're both very much into the the hybrid little stuff or hybrid age play stuff a little bit um if it's not obvious is little pony so both identities at the same time sometimes separate as well I identify as a bratty daddy um and I would say those are complete overlaps for me what ones have you heard out there which ones do you find interesting um a lot of people who are really into unusual pet play um things like raccoons or other animals that I that I hear an awful lot that they overlap with their their little age play they have multiple roles and sometimes they they kind of go from pet to little and a lot of still caring qualities kind of in there as well I would say like if you come to if you're ever in saint louis and you are around here and you come to our age playmunch you are going to see just as many littles as you are going to see pups and furries at our munch um they I think they completely overlap with each other um you know you'll have people in their furry costumes wearing diapers and those just go hand in hand and I think as a little as a middle I love when people come as they're you know they're animal selves because what little doesn't want to play with a puppy or a cat or something like that you know and it just is like the most it's like it's like a match made in heaven like we all want to play together and we all coincide together and the energy is spectacular I'm fascinated by the raccoon in a little because that's not what I really want to say well it's kind of troublemaking and mischievous and I can definitely fix it yeah there's a lot of people who are like which I think is great because also identify as a goblin and so you know you're just kind of like a little chaos goblin causing problems as you run around and a lot of like not like Teehee's but a lot of hehehe and uh you know and you kind of just are causing mayhem I mean one of my favorites I've seen out there is combining the mommy caregiver with puppy play and it winds up looking like nana from the Peter Pan cartoon that's spectacular like I'm intrigued by so I've been hearing a new trend of um what was it and I don't know why this hasn't happened sooner I granted at least an art area region of like they have um a pet and littles like playday type of thing and so they're like hey so we're gonna have a mosh but we're gonna invite the littles to play with like you know all of the pets pull your ears and tails yeah um but you know and and they're like oh my goodness who would have thought this would be so much fun of having the littles and the pets together and I'm going duh I mean it really makes sense um it really does so you know it seems I've come across at a couple of times at like different events and they're like why didn't we think of this sooner well yeah I didn't think of this sooner this is like you know a really good thing of you know of play and enjoyment and allowing people to do the different things and look I got a new puppy but I don't have to take it home and actually care for it I can leave it here and it can like magically like you know adult itself exactly later and I think with littles and pet play like you know the enthusiasm that littles have when they're in head space really pumps up you know pups and other animals because who doesn't want to like when when you've got a little like squeeing with joy because they through the ball and you brought the ball back and they're just gonna keep doing it over and over again because they can't be happier I mean as a as a I can't imagine as a pup that just has got to be feeling so good and so much fun so yeah it's just I don't know I think it's a beautiful thing it sort of happened organically in in the munch that we host where pups started coming to and yeah now it I would say it's easily 50-50 and a lot of times just that outside reinforcement helps your head space so much because you could be a puppy or a kitty and be doing your thing and that's all well and good but went a little kind of stumbles along and starts to pet the little puppy or whatever it is I feel like both of them get a reinforcement to their their role in that I definitely have to agree with that and I think it's two outside communities you know like on the fringe of vdsm that can come together and accept each other wholeheartedly and without judgment and that just feels amazing too I don't know if I'd say on the fringe but maybe not as understood as as other folks that's a kind of way of putting it fair yeah so speaking of roles normally the big is the dominant the submissive is the little but that's not a hard and fast story um just because the normal family structure is what is kind of based around doesn't mean that people kind of flip that on on the side and I always go to the Willy Wonka and the chocolate factory movies where varuka salt is very much in control and demanding and her father is trying to please her trying to try and just to do whatever she wants in order for it to be okay and it can go back and forth folks can switch or else it can be more of a service caregiver with the little being in charge I want some ice cream great we're gonna do that very cool so how does one make the most out of their age play having having other other age players around really amplifies that headspace so much you've also got to look into yourself and see what what you do enjoy and kind of focus there a lot of times people I knew a guy back in Chicago you know one weekend a month was his little weekend and he would turn off his phone he'd lock his doors and he'd put a diaper on and all weekend he'd just eat cereal and watch cartoons and that's perfectly legitimate as well but finding what really feeds you is is so very important I always think it's really interesting because we have a lady that comes in on our age play fun days and and does a science class basically like a little experiment or a demo or something like that we put Mentos and Coke one time or something like that and Brandy was really shocked that she enjoyed it so much and adipped her so far down in the headspace so trying different things and seeing how that impacts your headspace and kind of adjusting from there I think is really valuable so I'm hearing you have a Bill Knight role player pretty much she she really enjoys doing that and being educational as well as seeing the kind of exuberance that that folks have towards it I mean she's she's amazing and she is so accepting and loving with the age play community she really like we can count on her I don't think there's been an age play day Paul that we've done where she hasn't been there I believe you're right and she just she just she just tries so hard and gives so much and these are like legit science experiments that you would do in school and it's just it is amazing as an adult to just lower that mind set down and just go back into that I'm learning something kind of mindset and wow it was it was amazing for me because I I don't think I've ever felt as little and as regressed as I did in her class and we are playing with bubbles and making like prisons out of bubbles it was so freaking cool um and yeah it was so it was so amazing and I just it's yeah I mean if people really want to get into age play and really want to experience it um community is is my um suggestion find find community find people who are like you and explore that way I mean the first time little bit went all the way in the little head space was when there were other little surrounding it was in St. Louis at one of the two big events I don't remember which one spank's giving okay spank's giving and there were shrinky dinks and coloring and she just went full all in coloring the shrinky dinks and wow yours looks pretty type stuff was easier to just kind of you know slip into that a little bit more granted like I could feel myself not going into like it was there but I could feel where my limit of little was yeah I totally understand that I get I get much more little when I color and when I'm around other little coloring it kind of just lets me drift off but it only goes so far down mm-hmm yeah I agree yeah because even there was even for me there was a few little so that I was like oh no that's way too far for me like just on some aspect of my brain wave and thought pattern okay I don't want to go that far down but I can stay where I'm at and be comfortable and interact with you know some of the other little who were farther down little compared to me but I was like okay after a while I'm like I need to move up to other little that are closer to where my age ranges because I mean I identify as a non-specific age and I just want to shout out and say that's really okay you don't need to have you or anyone doesn't need to have a particular age and several people also have different ages that they play and that's perfectly legitimate as well I always tell people don't don't focus so much on picking out a number as much as looking at the activities that you enjoy oh I like that I really like that that that that is definitely some useful information when conversing because if I say oh well I'm a four-year-old that that might take some of the stuff that you really enjoy and kind of put it in the back seat and I guess we should say that like that your age is just a guideline and you can expand beyond that so of course so age play is one of those things that's hard to do 24/7 you can't stay in your crib 24/7 unless your daddy is full on sugar daddy how can you bring that into the day though at least for me I think it's a lot of it involves kind of checking in and that building those habits or those rituals that drop people in the headspace just for a minute and Brandy has a professional job but sometimes she can take a second to look out at her phone and I imagine that she drops into a little bit of that role when she's replying to a text other things other simple things to kind of build it in are even just like opening the door for the other person or holding hands when you're walking across the street or things that are kind of little and protective but don't don't drop you so much into that headspace even like a good night kiss as well can can kind of and some people enjoy being tucked in as well can foster that sense of of relationship throughout the day and I think it's important to remember that you do have to put the headspace aside at some points I don't think it's healthy to to want to be in headspace 24 hours a day seven days a week you know because you've got to deal with stuff right you got to you got to deal with the adult stuff that is in front of you so I think it's important to recognize that it's not it's not good to just want to be a child all the time however I think Paul's right with like little tiny rituals that you can do throughout the day that really connect to those sort of things I know we do he if he and I are going somewhere even if it's just grocery shopping he'll buckle me into the car and then give me a forehead kiss and that's just a nice little way to remind me and him that we have that dynamic or when I'm holding his hand to like just hold his last two fingers and not his entire hand that really makes me feel small in the moment I'm trying to think of what else we do it's so natural at this point sometimes it's hard to remember but I think I think the main thing that we're really getting here is that balance and and you're right you we can't stay in the crib or stay in headspace 24/7 and that's not necessarily productive or maybe even healthy I don't know but being able to find segments of time where we can delve into that headspace is really good I want to live my life with Brandy and sometimes that's her as an adult and sometimes that's her and her age play headspace and at at the end of the day I I love her when she's being normal and when she's in headspace and we have a good life and get things done and have enjoyable things but it's not all the headspace I sometimes need the person behind that as well sure I mean as I'm listening to your ways how to do it 24/7 what popped into my head is the guys on Big Bang Theory they always have their action figures around them they have the comic book t-shirts that would do it for me to have those reminders throughout the day I'm not sure that's what they were going for but I would say that would work yeah absolutely I mean I have a squish mellow up on my desk at work so it's it's little reminders like that but just kind of keep you there I've cultivated my my room to be my middle's dream room you know it's it's gothian spooky in every way so little things like that that just kind of help you remember that you have this freedom of expression yeah call them call them collectibles your mom want that and I on it exactly yeah exactly so a question I've heard before and I've never really heard a great answer I've heard okay answers to it persons doing age play they like it they enjoy it but they have kids and the kids are slowly becoming the age that this person age plays as and that creeps them out how would you suggest dealing with that so I've I've heard a lot of people that come into this come into this point and a lot of people end up taking a break from the age play in focusing on other roles once again it's very individualistic so people if they are able to tilt away from that particular range or those particular activities that their kids are hitting maybe that would be another another way to go about maintaining that age play relationship without having it being too burdensome and I talk about caregiver fatigue or caregiver burnout and awful lot and if if I'm busy diapering my little and all of a sudden our kids are hitting that diaper age maybe I don't want to do that thing so much and really exploring together and finding other satisfactory experiences maybe maybe it's just going to be cuddling um and or holding each other or whatever it happens to be keeping that that age play relationship as productive and fun instead of just another thing that the caregiver may need to do or having it kind of squick them out might be the way to go very good make sense you've talked a couple of times about regression can you clarify and kind of explain what you mean by the regression um when we talk about regression it's it's sometimes in a non-kink sense it's a defense mechanism that people go back to an earlier age and for a little bit of comfort for a little bit of reassurance um when we talk about age play regression people go back in their mind to that earlier time and kind of feel the same way and Brandy talked about that she felt kind of that regression hit her when they were doing that bubble science experiment so it's not that though they're taking on a different role or they're not coming up with a character they're actually kind of stepping back in their own timeline if that makes sense Brandy what did it feel like when when you did do that regression um it was really it was really calming because it as somebody whose brain is going a hundred miles an hour and a hundred different directions I was really able to feel like I had regressed to that age where I was able to focus and pay attention um really take in everything that happened it felt really um single-minded I was doing one task that was it I was there I was present in my body I was present in the moment and there wasn't outside influences I wasn't wondering you know how much laundry do I have to put away or you know did we scoop the kitty litter boxes this week um it was really just it was a it was a really easy way to just let go and be be right there and be present and enjoy what I was doing there was a feeling of innocence um I really felt like my childhood self I felt small I felt there was you know there was that I was sitting on a chair the the instructor was standing up so there was you know this exchange of power in the sense that they were instructing me on how to do something um and it was just really pure and lighthearted and innocent and really comforting and I think that that comfort or that feeling of safety is is sometimes why people regress backwards because they they desire that I can't understand that um it had the conversation before with somebody in a class that they were saying that you know any time that they are stressed they always age regress um and people have chatted with them about you know not being able to negotiate with them because they're regressing any thoughts or anything on that at least for me I never wanted to go negotiate with someone who is in an altered state of consciousness which is essentially what what regression is um just like I wouldn't want to try to negotiate with somebody who was who was drunk I want people to be in the here and now be present and being able to make adult decisions do you want to do this is this okay is that not okay um so really making sure that people are in a normal headspace and that there is not some sort of power dynamic or an imbalance in place while doing that negotiating is I think really important if if you are doing something with someone and they seem to hit in altered headspace or that that maybe folks didn't expect I would at least for myself be be pretty cautious about what's going on um just because that altered headspace changes an awful lot and I just want to really be considerate of people doing stuff that they want to do in our comfortable with understand thank you I am going to guess here that the expert witness in front of the Texas Supreme Court had something to do with custody um no actually from from my understanding the the case was about representing yourself as a minor and in some sort of online interactions and how that that was illegal down in Texas and they were trying to they were trying to say that you know the the individual is not a minor in the circumstance but age play is is kind of different than that Gotcha interesting I mean I've heard some horror stories about custody and age play so that's why I assumed that while I've heard some horror stories I came very close to living my own with my ex but yeah if you're into age play don't let your ex know about it it would be my advice because while we know better you don't want to know what the judge thinks right and a lot of times people especially in a charged personal situation like that really really make it something that it's not absolutely so tell us a little bit about the book so it was about it was about 10 years ago now that I wrote the age play from diapers to diplomas book which largely focused on on the little's part and a lot of people have told me that that has really helped them in off a lot but one thing that's really kind of been neglected in a lot of a lot of books or a lot of media is is how to go about doing it as a caregiver and a lot of times people kind of fumble and try things or don't realize that there's other options or have maybe misconceptions about what that caregiver role is and I was trying to collect different practices kind of taking a look at you know what wouldn't negotiation look like as a caregiver what what do people get out of being a caregiver what can you do with your non-caregiver partner and kind of provide a road map for people who are maybe a little bit uncertain or maybe the folks that are that their partners or someone else comes up to them and says you know you you are a daddy and then they're kind of like really uncertain where to go with that so this is kind of just trying to help folks find that headspace find that part of themselves and maybe open it up for people more people to explore that that caregiver headspace gotcha but the book that's already in print is called age played from diapers to diplomas and I will throw Amazon link to that in the show notes before we jump into the part of the show that we like to call inside the kinkster studio is there anything else you would like to share about age play I want to I just wanted to say that a lot of times there is a big a big divide in the age play community about folks that are sexual age players versus non-sexual age players and I always want to say that you know it isn't such a cut and dried or either one or the other but a lot of times it is on that spectrum and maybe folks that consider themselves non-sexual age players may have something in there and I want to say that that they're both really legitimate views to take and I kind of come from a radically inclusive umbrella where I don't want folks dividing themselves out and dividing the age play community based on sexual versus non-sexual I think we are so much stronger if we all come together and realize that we do have these differences sometimes yeah I'm just gonna echo what Paul said and just say that you know the age play community is definitely better together and stronger together and just to reiterate that if you're struggling with accepting yourself as an age player or accepting yourself as a caregiver to seek out other people and talk to other people don't don't don't let yourself be alone with that look for community it will most of the time help and and give you some confidence to be able to to really dive down this path which can be incredibly helpful and and just really loving and caring excellent I actually do have one more question do you ever hear about anybody age playing older so very interestingly I I feel like it's incredibly rare but some people do do it and I know that when I was writing the age play book I talked to a guy who did geriatric age play and he would still wear a diaper because that's what some older folks do and actually a lot of the elements of like nursing home or skilled nursing care really kind of look very similar to that adult baby model as well I would argue that in the caregiver frame of reference a lot of people do play older than they then they actually are so I know that back when I was in my 20s and feeling like a daddy I kind of projected myself out to be older there as well I mean I had heard about it theoretically I have not heard about anybody specifically doing it other than myself I guess because mine is very specific I do as Anna Claus role play I'm playing older I only break it out for about a month a year but there you go that's fun that's really cool I imagine okay so moving to the part of the show we call inside the kinkster studio this is where we get to know you a little bit better are you a game for that total 100% okay what is your favorite toy in your toy bag I'm gonna let Brandy start this has nothing to do with the age play but I'm just recently we've gotten into staples so the staple gun nice and I would say for me I have a pair of of claws which are like kind of leather gauntlets with with three or four fake maybe inch or two claws that come out and they're wonderful for scratching an abrasion play nice yeah it's gonna say any of these questions are not directly related to age play this is just in general cool so yeah so you don't have to focus on age play this is just focusing in general on anything okay what has been your biggest failure in kink and what did you learn from it hmm that's a tough question I would have to say that especially when you're playing with people that you don't know be very clear and very specific about what is to go on and what is not to go on and definitely if you don't feel comfortable or you are people pleasing by accepting a scene it's probably wise or not to do it then to do it because when I was much younger I was even more people pleasing than I am now so I'm gonna say that my biggest failure probably was at the very beginning of my journey jumping into a very strict DS dynamic before I explored everything that kink had to offer and just assuming that I was a submissive because I had submissive tendencies I looking back I wish I had given myself the grace to be able to pause that and you know taste like the kink buffet of life and just try a little bit to really find out who I was rather than pigeon-holing myself into a role because that's what it seems like I wanted what three words describe your play oh I want to say edge play is that that kind of one word or am I kind of the two words are we getting technical no that's one word okay okay okay that is one okay edgy hard um and playful and I would say caring taboo and close nice what are your catch phrases oh this is a good one I got this Paul okay he will say oh baby cakes and I'll say oh daddy muffin or he'll say oh baby doll and I'll say oh daddy gijou um and we just kind of he'll say one word and I'll pick the opposite but for a big and that's that's kind of the call and response that that kind of builds a ritual that brings us closer because that's that's entirely something that is just us what is something that people would be surprised to know about you that you're willing to share of course I I would guess that people would kind of be surprised that I really have an interest in gardening okay that's a different type of caretaking he cut out I didn't hear what he said what did he say gardening gardening yes the plants don't talk back very much so that's really possible I would say that um I probably come across as somebody who has uh no fux to give attitude um but deep down I have all the fux to give and I care really really deeply um and I'm always always questioning if I'm doing enough or if I'm doing enough for the community well secrets out now all right all right my favorite question which favorite curse word fuck I would also have to go with fuck and it's very interesting because I didn't I didn't start swearing as much until I became a therapist I mean I'm so thankful he said a daddy and not I met Brandy I'm counting that as a win for me so last question and my favorite question to ask if you had to have sex with one muppet which muppet would it be and why oh I I know my answer immediately so I'm gonna go animal of course um because he's a drummer I am tempted to say miss Piggy because I love Pig Play but I think I'm gonna actually go with the the very the the lady from the rock band uh because Janice because she has like wonderful eyelashes awesome great answers okay well that about does it for today I want to thank you for being on our show yes thank you and talking about age play for listeners upcoming synagogue classes in person and virtual are leave your mark and body drumming and electro play find all the details on that on our website um but that is it that's our show say goodnight little bit goodnight little bit