Ep12 - "Pawsome Pup Play and Indiana Leather and Kink Weekend" with Pup Spaz

Ep12 - "Pawsome Pup Play and Indiana Leather and Kink Weekend" with Pup Spaz

Puppy (pet) Play educator, Spaz Puppy answers a lot of questions about why it's so pawsome for our community! As the head instigator of Indy PAH (Pets & Handlers), have been working with the local community to create gatherings and spaces that are complimentary to pet play, adapting to the newer people entering the community and shifting from locally closing gay bars to alternative spaces and activities. As contest owner and producer (and titleholder!) Spaz has prepared education on the history of our (leather) title contests, and taken a closer look at why it's meaningful and still has a place in our community.

Pup Spaz is from Indianapolis and has identified as a leather pup since 2009. Spaz can frequently be seen and heard around the community shooting pool and chasing squirrels, however, Spaz now spends his free time traveling, educating, and encouraging other pets and pet groups. Pup Spaz founded and is the head instigator of Indy PAH since 2014, a pup group representing IN and the greater area, providing a social group with events for local pups to learn, play & share experiences.  

• Fetlife.com/PupSpaz
• IKLW.org
• Facebook.com/Puppy.Spaz

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SINagogue hosts and guests are subject matter experts but not *the* expert. We believe outside of violating consent, there's no wrong way to kink except to think your way is the only way. The show is presented from a RACK (Risk-Aware Consentual Kink) point of view, not SSC (Safe Sane Consentual) because each person’s definition of safe is different based on their risk profile. Use of the word "safe" on the show fits our definition, and that doesn't have to be your definition. 

Reminder, we try to make our content as inclusive as possible regardless of gender, orientation, role in the lifestyle, etc., but we do inherently speak from our own point of view. We want to learn from our mistakes. If you feel like we said something offensive, let us know. Reach out via our website or call us at 469-269-0403.

Today’s show was brought to you in part by the letters S and M, and the Number 69. 

*San Dimas High School Football Rules*

Chapters

• 3:56 Let's Talk About Pup Play
• 8:01 The History of Pup Play
• 11:53 What's It Look Like?
• 19:15 Why Puppy Play?
• 25:54 Hot To Handler
• 31:52 Mosh!
• 39:33 Pup Contest
• 51:45 Indiana Leather and Kink Weekend
• 1:00:02 Inside The Kinkster's Studio

Transcript

1:14

Hosting with me today is my partner, my ADHD squirrel wrangler, my submissive, my brat, my little my pony, or just my little pony. Awwww. The Physic to my Enigo? Little bit. The what? You heard me. This is episode number 12 and with us today is Pup Spaz to talk to us about Puppie Play. Oh. Hi, Spaz! Wait, wait, why? Do I come in yet? No, I'm not yet. Hi Spaz, welcome to the show! Puppie Pet Play Educator, Spaz Puppie can answer a lot of questions about why it's so possum for our community, also as the head instigator of an indie paw, pets and handlers, they age, have been working with the local community to create gatherings and spaces that are complimentary to Puppie and adapting to the newer people entering the community and shifting from locally closing gay bars to alternative spaces and activities. As contest owner and producer and title holder, Spaz has prepared education on the history of our leather title contest and taken a closer look at White's meaningful and still has a place in our community. But first, a word from our sponsor. Pupp Spaz is from Indianapolis, Indiana and has identified as a leather pup since 2009. Spaz can frequently be seen and heard around the community, shooting pool and chasing squirrels. However, Spaz now spends much of his free time traveling, educating and encouraging other pets and pet bricks. Spaz founded and is the head instigator of indie paw since 2014, a regional pup group representing Indiana and the greater area providing a social group with events for local pups to learn, play and share experiences with their community. Spaz is also the owner/producer of the Indiana pet pup and trainer contest, head instigator of indie leather and fetish weekend and closely relates to the Mr. Friendly Mission to end at HIV stigma and is a prep and STI testing advocate. Spaz was proud to be awarded and represent the first tri-state pup title in 2014/15 and continues to share his unique personality and enthusiasm with his leather and kink community. Welcome to the show Pupp Spaz. Let's talk about pup play. Oh yeah, we can do that. Hi, hi! Thanks for having me. Not a problem. Glad to have you on. Oh my gosh, so I love making fun of judges because we're way too freaking long. And now I feel like one of those people. There's so much we can talk about. Hey wait, I've been a judge for you. You have. And so as wait. Have you judged yet? Yes, yes, yes I have. Yes, because we ended up back up judges. That's what happened. Yep. Yeah! And then we've done silly contests and you've helped with those. Are not a contest event. And yes, pet play. So you said I'm going to talk about that. Yes. Pet play, pet play specifically. Well I do tend to be a little bit biased since I am a puppy. But it is interesting because of course our pet community is always involved more than just puppies. And having other animals join in a while back we made that official because our pod group is now pets and handlers instead of pups and amers. But to us idiot puppy starting out, that's all we thought about. Are you for inclusivity? Exactly. No, the pet thing is the puppy thing is extremely strong segment of our community. And it's really interesting because today it's shifting from our leather community and starting to at least a minor query, a spawn more from the furry community. Which is not where I came from. And then I have to be careful because I don't want to miscontrute through it furry is but it is also unique in somewhat then diagram overlapping form of play with some differences of course. Sure. And also tends to skew demographically younger than puppy even. We are over 50% of our pets or puppies are under 30 years old and identifies gay male. At least as of pre-COVID statistics back when we had to wear with all the do stuff like that. Yeah, what else you want to know? So let's start out with what is a puppy play? So puppy plays is basically setting aside your day to day concerns and taking on the mentality and carestics of what we see stereotypically and are biological companions. It's a very youthful mentality. It's a very unhibited playful, curious, fun loving way to go into a different type of headspace and explore the world. We would involve getting on all fours and embarking on being involved in the Switches and pets. They could involve being put in a cage. Really did initially at least in the 2000s and 1990s what have you. Grow out of gay men's letter community primarily. So there is a lot of overlap with a lot of kinky stuff. There is a lot of sex positivity involved in it but that is not true for everybody. But really it's a form of release from their day to day concerns. It is almost or very much is a form of subspace in terms of not worrying about the fact that the rents do tomorrow and I don't have the money and having an enjoyable time. So I know such things are rarely documented but to the best of your knowledge how did pup play come about? We had several legends floating around out there that we've told and you are correct and that the documentation is sorely lacking. I think the best thing to letter archives has is some of the very first puppy contests which were very much Westminster style dog shows. No talking, France around those days it was kind of like a wet underwear contest but with puppies. Who could be the cutest and play fetch the best and entertain the audience? But prior to that it was said that some serves were punishing their boys and made them treat them like dogs to punish them and the boys liked it. Is one story we've told. We have a World War II vet that stayed with a human companion and was in dog form until the day is owner died. I don't have anything written to document this that I'm aware of. We supposedly have our first puppy in San Francisco who swears he was the first one ever to do it but we also have lots of animal role play going on over the years and in different various cultures such as spirit animals with the Native Americans using animal role play as a form of physical therapy. You know move your arms like an elephant trunk for example. Secret societies from the 1700s to the detriment of the Catholic church that would bark at their neophytes or pledges that were entering the secret society. Really makes you wonder about some of our current secret societies and what they're doing behind closed doors. So examples abound but you're right the documentation doesn't exist so much but what we do know from those around is how it really did start taking off maybe in the late 90s but definitely in the 2000s and just skyrocketed. It looks like a lot of fun people see it and they're like I would never think I'd want to do this but oh my gosh look how much fun they're having and I played fetch with one of them and now I want to try it. It's a very safe entry point to much of our kinky activities in the gay male community and you don't have to come in as a boy or a submissive to a master or a sur coming as a puppy and explorer. A lot less formalized responsibility to have safe entry play. And while it's historically been a gay male community it is not exclusively anymore correct? It is not and it hasn't been for a while but of course when it originated inside of those gay male oriented spaces that has been and still in the puppy world still maintains a stronger, stronger, gay male presence. With the shift in our acceptance and opening up to everything in others to join in which is not a bad transition. It's obviously expanded well outside of that as well but that presence in that history is still there depending on the region where you're at and where you find puppy play. We still do have on-place of very gay male only almost exclusive puppy groups for a form or informal gay campground comes to mind. There are puppies will congregate there and that's what they know and that's what they see. That's something that Indy Fowl over the years that actually relatively quickly got away from was those exclusive gendered spaces. We actually started out initially for a couple years hosting puppy events at our local gay campground in Indiana. We stopped doing that because it wasn't necessary and we had many other options available that did not exclude our non male or male identifying population. Gotcha. So for our listeners who have never seen, never heard of pup play before, visually what are they likely to see? So probably the most prominent thing you'll end up seeing is a whole bunch of people walking around with puppy ads on generally neoprene. Mr. S.R. at gigantic leather vendor on the west coast first introduced that neoprene hood was quickly copied all over the place but actually they had leather hoods that they based on leather gimpwoods just stuck some puppy ears and a snout on it prior to that but those neoprene hoods are very accessible so looks like a puppy, barks like a puppy might be standing or drinking and chatting all night or quietly in the corner or you might see them on all fours playing with each other playing with toys, locking around balls sometimes wrestling depending on the space and the mood you might see more sexually graphic things going on. That hood ends up being quite a linchpin in a lot of the people's head space. It gives them that sense of anonymity that allows them to act out their, their more, I'm shy about doing this side. It can really help someone get into the head space and explore a bit and getting the confidence in the community to explore further. Oftentimes our puppies are in a transitional space and we'll move beyond puppy at some point. It's not always a permanent kink or fetish or thing. Sometimes it's just getting your foot in the door and a fun way, a fun and safe way generally to do it. Again without getting into a very hardcore relationship with a dominant that can be awful scary especially when you're just entering. Well, I was going to say that it also seems to be like, you know, if somebody is entering into the kink community then, you know, in doing it as using puppy is like a safety net, there's also, you know, sheer numbers of so many puppies out there who are more than willing to step up and introduce and, you know, give feedback or provide that additional type of safety net too. Yep. Yeah, these, when, when puppies gather, I won't say mayhem and zoos, but why am I supposed to say? I'll say it if you want. Mayhem and zoos. Well, they can. Not mentioning puppy gate or anything crazy and unusual like that. But that's a problem across our entire kink community in general is having new bees show up their internet porn trained into an actual play space for the first time and not knowing how things actually function. So yeah, there's on boarding in a sense of community and having fun and a puppy is a lot more approachable than you in many cases or maybe a lesser certain of a mere cap or a dominic trick or you name it can be a lot more intimidating to approach, especially if they're putting on a persona. I will say years ago, my first leather bar that I went to, it was much easier to approach somebody because I was coming in as a brand new submissive and growing up in the gay leather men's community essentially that it was much easier for me to approach a puppy and their handler versus somebody who is in full all on leather that night. Yep. There are also much more friendly too. I know. Puppy just want loving. I know. Put a smile on someone's face. You can tell if they're friendly because Patel is wagging. Very often yes. And of course that's one of the innumas about puppy play too is that you technically don't need any gear to be in that headspace but it is one heck of a hinky code for puppies of throwing a puppy in the tail. Sure. There's no guessing what the callers mean. No it's a puppy. I mean gear always helpful but never a requirement for whatever the king is. Yeah, generally not. However, I would argue that those that find the puppy who is again very important to getting into that headspace, getting into their comfort zone that sense of anonymity to explore that side in themselves. That might be one of the more important pieces but you know all sorts of gear can play that role in different kings and fetishes as well or activities. And I don't know that I've ever really had that strong bond with my puppyhood but I also sweat a lot when I have one. Sure. And I like to talk. Sure. I've kind of noticed that. Well like some of the past. So spas can be in puppy's headspace with or without. Put on. Yes. I often label myself as a two-legged puppy because I tend to be on two legs. I do enjoy the occasional getting on all fours and getting the headspace but obviously when you're running a lot of events, when you're putting the other community gathering and trying to be a good host, oftentimes I guess that's too decide for a bit. Sure. It doesn't come out as often. So tell us about your collar since we've been hearing it the entire time so far. I feel like we need to talk about it a little bit. I told you I took a shower for this interview. I had to make sure I put my collar on. So obviously a puppy collar is one way a puppy can also flag that they're a puppy. It can be a comfort object. It can be their owner's tags can have stuff written on the back of it besides the puppy's name. But yeah, I do tend to wear my collar quite a bit. It's a red one. It flashes. It's also made in China so the waterproof claim is absolute bullshit. The other two dead needs to be used to prove that. Unfortunately we charge it and are relatively affordable. And then yes, it has some tags on it which easily clip from collar to collar if I want to change things up or put on my pool safe collar. But yeah, it's one of the ways as a pet we will flag that were pets maybe without having our puppy hood or tail on. What else you want to know? How do I describe a red collar? It's red. Why does puppy play speak to you as opposed to other forms of pet play whether it be kitten play or pony play or something else? Why would somebody go the puppy route as opposed to those? Why would you do anything else? There are so many puppies. Not quite true. Based on what I've seen and I know little pony bites can give some insight on this. Obviously puppy is most prevalent today and then that all depends on your local community as well, right? Yeah, because kink is local. Surprisingly so. People do what they see happening around them. But you know I grew up with cats which is hilarious. I suppose when I first went off to college I actually associated as a tiger, a really horny one. That's a little rigged. I never went to any tiger route. But you know that was before even you'll probably play existed and saw a lot of people doing it. And the cool hoods and and wagging your tail and having fun and oh by the way when you get on all horse you're at crotch level with a whole bunch of people that will give you head rubs and don't seem to mind when you stick your muzzle right in your crotch. In a space as I was at at the time that was generally accepted. Our old leather bars. Yeah, why didn't pony place stick out to me? The different head space of it even when I became more aware of pony play. Pony tends to be a lot more about show and performance in a sense. Puppy play can involve that. You can have a trainer. You can learn tricks. You can be taught a routine and make that part of your puppy experience. But we tend not to see that as often. Not to mention puppy here goes all over the place. Kittens being more aloft, more independent. We see a lot more kittens in the straighter community. All that we do have, Gamel kittens as well. Like we have Gamel ponies. And again this is my bias in the community around most often. True pig play does exist. Although I can't speak much to it besides having fun rolling around and muddening treated like the stereotypical pig. I don't know how sexual is pony. In varies, I mean like it truly varies. I know like even with pony play contest stuff, I mean it's not. You're not showing off like how sexy is your pony on that. You're showing off like can you do a routine and can you follow instruction? It follows more of that even you know with contest type stuff. But you know on the whole it varies. It you know folks I think people who want to get into some of the more sexual aspects of pony play. I wouldn't say it's taboo but it's more of like it's hidden than not talked about nearly as much. Yep. Yeah and I suppose that's true for a lot of people in expressing their sexuality unless you're in a space that is more devoted to that or space and time for that. And obviously our community gatherings and contests and whatnot tend not to have sex just happening around every corner. Right. But there's an undercurrent of it oftentimes. Right. And oh yeah sorry. No I thought it was also interesting because I know the European mayors and stallions for whatever that's called that happen at law. Yes. That is that is a game and only. Oh very much. And it's not pony play. No it is not. But they adopted a verbiage of it. Yes. So that they can get into the head space and just go in there and have one time fucking basically. We're clear to find rules of who's doing what. Who's the mayor and who's the stallion. Which I'm so envious of people that can do that. That is not compatible with my analytical mind. I like to know someone's name and favorite color before I met them. At a minimum. Fair. Are there different types of pups? Well certainly. And yeah we definitely have labels for anything. Well hell. You've been around a long enough. You've seen that the number of labels just almost exponentially increasing. As people get more time to explore these different feelings they have personally and how they express themselves in labels coming out of woodwork. Some typical puppy labels might be a service puppy. Running around helping out with the benefits of getting drinks. Being of service to those around them. We might have garden puppies look after the security of people playing in pup mode. Being sure they're not getting interrupted in a bad way. I know there's other ones I'm just completely forgetting. But yeah we do have some labels with in our community and then we also have puppy breeds. But that's more of a what do I most associate with in terms of a specific breed of dog. Biological dog. That was never something so important to me. My breed is mud. Fair. But some puppies really take their breed to heart and express different characteristics they know of that breed while they're in that puppy headspace. So can you tell us a little bit about the handware side of pup play? Oh yeah. A human counterpart to a puppy. So typically handware is fallen under four different distinct hats when person might wear all four or just one of them. You have your handlers which look after the welfare of the puppy. Make sure to water make sure your knee pads are on correctly. Safety gear is important when you're on all four because rug burn is very real. Make sure not over exerting themselves. Get them loving, taken for walks. Our trainers actually teach tricks. Teach the puppy to heal maybe or other various activities of that nature. An owner maybe named a puppy. Maybe that's who the puppy goes home to every night. Might be their partner. The other one, the term I would use would be sir but this sir mistress someone within the more leather lifestyle that has a puppy as a part of their family. More very dominant in the lifestyle mentality and relationship with their pup. Maybe more mentorship even. So yeah, of course all the things meld and mean different things to different people and many people will hold all four of those hats and some will only hold one or two. A puppy may have different people to go to for different scenes or activities. That fulfill different aspects of those roles. But of course there's also not enough hamburgs which is extremely frustrating for new puppy coming out because they're like I want an owner, I want to handle her. I want that human counterpart to hold my leash and instead what they find is they're surrounded with a whole bunch of other puppies looking for the same thing. So that's a fun play activity for both sides because oftentimes that and we don't tell the pup uses but that is a very dominant and submissive relationship that that human counterpart that human that's in charge of you when you're in your puppy head space. Definitely getting your paw wet in terms of experiencing that dominant and submissive role. Arguably a lot of our activities always seem to have a dominant submissive role. Oftentimes a lot more hardcore. Then calling a puppy good boy and petting them on the head or giving them belly rubs or snacking on the nose with newspaper for being more they shouldn't even know. So because there's more puppies than handlers available this typically means that you may find pups doing double duty of they may be a handler to one pup but they may be puppy to a different pup. Oh, you are most certainly correct and we have labels for that too because of course we took off after our biological animal counterparts and we have alphas and betas and amegas. We have packs of puppies. Alphas will lead to packed abatas or the pack followers or members of the pack of amegas will basically roll over for anyone. What different letters thrown in there as well that you'll have to ask the person what it means to them. Fair. Yes, yes, kink is local. And yeah, puppy being oftentimes a transition, a transitionary period while someone is discovering the gray or leather and kink community means that someone may be moving out of puppy a bit or not always doing that or playing mentor to someone new on the scene that wants an alpha or wants a handler and having fun with it on both ends. They're being switched or if you stand up the head space you're being an alpha to amegas and betas. And yes, our puppy relationship trees are extremely a, you know, ground for whiteboards and you might still eat more. We start asking about, okay, so you've got two betas and you're also beta with this person and this one's your alpha but your alpha to these and then they have their alpha to other puppies and oh my god. One of the most surprising things for me was sitting in on a, a poly class a couple years ago, excuse me, where it dawned on me that our pack relationships, sort of pack relationships I was in are very much poly families except we never called it that. That doesn't mean all packs are sexual or strong bonded relationships in nature they don't have to be they can be very informal or situational or seen based. It could be just good friends but in my case I was definitely experiencing the poly side of it but you know I would never call it that just means I got a lot more love to give. Tell us about a mosh. So the mosh is one of the most visible things that people will see in our community and typically would be one of the first things introducing them to the concept of puppy play. And it is an entertaining to watch mess of adults and puppy costumes on the floor playing with toys running around playing fetch getting water out of bowls sometimes wrestling inviting and growling and barking and you name it having a good time playing letting that energy out experiencing that head space of having fun of letting go of your day to day concerns of yeah the head space is primarily what's being expressed through that activity but it's when you know more than three to four to five or twenty or forty or sixty puppies all get on get on the ground to get in play at the same time oftentimes with safety gear including what I would refer to as pet mats but basic gym mats to keep your knees and paws protected a bit from the hardness of whatever hard surfaces underneath and having a lot of fun and again that is primarily how people will see puppy play initially versus the one on one encounters you might have outside of the mosh atmosphere. Very cool. So what are some of the big criticisms of the pup community that you hear and how do you respond to them? Oh, there are never criticisms of anyone because we would never tear anyone down in our community. Oh, okay, yes, there is some animosity from some sectors of the letter community. That's not leather, that's not hardcore enough, that's not us. That's just people acting like animals and while it's true that pet play technically does not require any overlap with the leather and king communities. Considering it's oftentimes adjacent to and right on top of and happening at the same events, those puppies are oftentimes the future generation of leather people as they are exposed to and see more and say, "Oh my gosh, I don't know, there is getting flogged, what is that? I want to try it." And again, a very safe entry point. Puppies are already using the same imagination we are using in leather during our kinky scenes. We are pretending we are tied up to the cross but can't get off. Well, sometimes you do get off on it. We are pretending we are tied to the cross and can't get away. There we go. There you go. While being beaten and punished or but it feels so good until it doesn't, what if it doesn't? But oh no, you have a say for it. So yes, you are pretending. But using an imagination like that, being unafraid to explore new stuff, stuff that again, the typical leather person is doing, we do it as a form of release too. We get into this ultra persona in a sense that we may not act out in public full time by exploring ourselves and exploring our bodies and exploring why we feel different ways when different things happen or like enjoying our dominance or submissiveness, finding that headspace are all things that the pets are doing that directly carry over to and also introduce them to the greater community of all the different things. The 50 bazillion shades of gray. I mean, what I had specifically in mind when I was asking that question is any time I see an article that is somewhere along the lines of does Kink belong with pride? It is almost always accompanied by a picture of a pup. Wow. I actually fought with that on a family over this past year from a lesbian and Britain. Oh. Say, we're giving gay people a bad name. So if you're specifically referring to pride, considering that pride was a combination of many, many different uprisings and marches and pushback against the state trying to police our personal sex lives, it is our annual riot in March. To say that Kink does not have a place there is to gentrify all pride and corporate you know, rainbow wash the event when we're still fighting for our rights today. So bowing down to those, oh, kids might not see that. Well, we're not having sex in public and kids totally get it. Right. You see someone in a puppy, they know it's a human under there, but they're also like,"Mommy, can I pet the puppy?" It's a lot of fun. Sure. Yeah, I mean, it's not sexualized in the appropriate spaces. When we're at a pride, it's an expression of self. Exactly. Expression of being different and embracing them and dancing down the street being joyous about it saying, "Yeah, try to stop us. We're here in force." This is fine too. This is joyful. This is a emboldening and not a detriment to society. I mean, when people say, you know, you shouldn't let children see your hood, my thought always is, the hood is as sexual as your bed is and you let them see your bed. Yep. Or turn it on its head. Oh, I shouldn't wear my puppy hood in public because children might see it. What do you think I'm doing in my puppy hood? What do you do when you put on a puppy hood? Right. I'm not walking down the street playing with my bone and squirting over everyone. What? That sounds like what type of bone it is. I mean, this is true. I kept my pool bone. His name is squeaky. He does fill up of water sometimes. He does get shaken out and squirting. That's what I'm going to find. That's an actual biological puppy toy. That's what I'm going to find you something for next time I see you. We did. This is Spaz's bone that Spaz has allowed to squirt all over everybody with appropriate consent, of course. That's just pool water. You were in a pool. Right. You already had it. Exactly. So you have run the ND Puppen Handler Contest for a number of years now before we talk about the big changes you have in store for this year. Tell us what exactly happens at a puppy contest. And yeah. All right. So actually we've, or I've got seven years of putting this contest on. So shortly after one try say puppy within the next year after building up the ND Pupp community over three to five years, I'm not sure. We had no people in interest in actually having our own, our own chindig. And it started out as just Indiana puppy. It was the last contest ever held at our local gay bar for the five one equal. And matter of fact, they announced their closure like two weeks before our event. Oh geez. I know. I'm like, but I was aware that I was on the horizon when I worked with the bar owners about it and saying, hey, all these people coming in from out of town to judge, you have contestants. It's a big, there's a lot of moving parts here. I want to make sure you will be open during the event. They kept it a word. So it happened to be the last contest and the biggest of contest I've ever seen there. And they were host to a lot of our other title contests back then. So start out as Indiana puppy. Gradually a couple years later, we added Indiana trainer. And then the population again, moving away from just puppy play to pet play. We introduced side by side with a puppy title, a pet title. And different contests did it differently. Some of them went straight from puppy and retired that title and just took on pet. And we elected to do it separately. So the pets that wanted to run and represent themselves did not have to compete with 14 puppies. Sure. Was the theory behind it? Of course, the theory and how it actually worked out. We are now actually transitioning away and semi-retiring our puppy title. And thus we meet certain conditions and then we'll hold out and actually separate them. So now we today will only have pet and trainer. But yeah, we've had five title years of contest and winners. That lack of trainers and handlers within our community has meant that that position has remained unfilled except for our first year. And I hope someday that we can have that change. But as in yet, that's okay. Yeah, where is it going with this? Did I give a good history? That's a good history. So what happens at these contests? Oh, thank you. So at these contests, these titles are very much community representation titles. And what that means is we're trying to lift someone up during your title or find someone that's worthy of bequeafing with the Indian and a popular trainer or pet title and saying, hey, we're proud to have you stand in front of us and say that you are a good representative of us as a population. And I have fun with it. It can be a very much cornerstone to our community, cornerstone to our community. And during the contest, that means that we are trying to quickly evaluate with a group of volunteer judges that are hopefully competent enough and have enough diversity to help pick out who is worthy of that title. We do interviews. We do speeches. Oh, my gosh. We make sure that the person running for the titles are capable of interacting with people they don't know in the public. That kind of heart comes back to bar nights or social images, we like calling it. Can you go out and be seen? Kind of important when we're asking you to be seen as our representative. We do pop questions on stage. So nothing to contestant can prepare for besides having the balls to be up there and be floored by something they had no clue is coming. Just to see how they respond on their verbal pause. And we also have a head spacing where they can demonstrate their pet and puppy or trainer side. How good they are at expressing that and sharing that with others. That doesn't mean they can't do that during the rest of the weekend as well, but you notice a lot of those other things. We're two lagging things where you're on two legs and you're expected to speak. We also went almost straight away, within the first three years maybe, to open interviews and historically with our letter contests such as ours. And ours is very much based upon our letter contests. As many pup contests are, the interviews had been closed and behind closed doors. And they tend to be the most impactful in terms of number of points that are required when to title. And we stepped away from that and said, hey, some other contests are doing this. Seems like a good idea. Let's go ahead and let the public sit in and watch the interview. And it's worked out really well. That way our community representatives, our whole community can watch them compete. But honestly, we don't need the community there to have these events. We have judges. Now we like to applause and the audience responding to what's going on, but it's not necessary to find a title holder. But these events serve a secondary purpose, which is bringing our community together for a period of time to celebrate, to reconnect, to meet up, to have a gathering. So that's a major component as well. And sure on those that want to represent us for the next year. Or longer if COVID happens again like that. Yeah. I think you've had some awesome title holders, some really good title holders. And since you've started representing Indy Pau. And some who have managed to be on some who have ended up being title holders longer than what the initial requirement was just because of the nature of life happens. Yeah. Well, and I'm a big believer in our titles need to serve our population. I could dictate a hand out a title without a panel of judges. But what's that doing for a community, not much. And yes, when you're referring to the big COVID thing, our last pre-COVID contest happened one month before lockdown. So we had brand new title holders that suddenly were locked in their houses. And they became our perpetual title holders. I think holding it for three and a half years maybe. I believe so, somewhere on in there. Yep. And they were good sports about it. And we're like, oh, so much for your title plans. I guess we'll wait and see, along with the rest of the world. And obviously COVID had a major impact on our communities and our ability to gather and be seen. Really had a big impact on our puppy population, then our pet population and our IndyPock. The average age in terms of being in the community of a puppy is about 1.9 years. And three years of COVID lockdown means we lost half of our puppy population. It didn't know we existed. Because we weren't gathering. So gradually things are coming back together, but a lot of contests fell by the wayside. Our letter, culture has tradition of, it's all volunteers running these local events, running these local contests. Each with their own strengths and weaknesses. And after three years of not doing it, now I don't think our community needs it or I don't feel like doing it anymore. Reeducating your community about these contests that used to play a more major role and aren't as prominent today. It doesn't mean I can't change. I'm a big believer in it in terms of a great opportunity for our community and for our title holders and for anyone even just stepping on stage. So one had to have growth opportunity. But trying to bring some of that back and COVID had a major impact in many aspects of our lives that we perhaps took for granted before. Do you feel like calling a leather contest whether it's yours or somebody else's? The kinky version of a beauty pageant is, do you feel like that's fair, accurate? Hmm. I may be biased, but I would say that is a gross oversimplification and a very jaded perception of what a leather contest is to many people. And to be fair, something leather contest hard at way. Okay. I would agree. We have our player titles. We have our equivalent of what underwear contest. Okay. You shut up to this bar tonight. No matter if I watched 5-1, Mr. 5-1, Eagle had this happen at least twice. You shut up at the bar tonight. You've got some leather on. Why don't you get up on stage and compete? And oh, you won. Good job. Oh, we expect to get an eye out next month. Surprise. We still have those events. It's not that they're not valid is that those producing it are doing it for different reasons and have different motives behind why they're putting it on. It brings people into their business. It brings people into the bar. And a lot of them wash their hands of it as soon as that contest is over. In terms of not supporting the title holder. It's just, hey, we do this once a year and crown someone. And then the support system may not be there to help out the title holder or let them do even more if they had the support of their producers and those at Pudon de Event. But it can be confusing for someone outside of the community that's not as familiar with contests, especially as they follow by the wayside of it, who may not be able to differentiate. Hey, this is a really serious contest versus, oh, they just, they showed up tonight just like I did. I could have been up there. And the meaning behind it, how impactful you should feel about it. And then of course, we also have our player titles, which by definition are, you know, when the title go out and have lots of Mad Wild, Kinky Sacks. And you see in your title best advertising for the title or the bar or what have you. So I suppose that could be a Kinky drag or a queen. Miss American, not that one though. So this year's contest September 13th through 15th, this year being 2024 for those who may listen to this way down the road. But you have big changes in store. Tell me, tell us about those changes. So over our past seven years of contest and not a contest weekend, because that's literally the name of what we called it, KNOTA contest. First annual social gatherings, we've grown every freaking year, which is a great problem to have. It's great that we've had a good enough reputation that people are coming back and bringing their friends. It's given us an opportunity to bring in more education, bring in more vendors. And as of two years ago, we were already outgrowing our largest adult place, Billy, space and indie. And it's somewhere between 5,000 to 7,000 square foot. And it wasn't big enough for us. So we've been pining to find a hotel. And that is a gigantic step going from a community driven and run venue to a very corporate hotel that wants a lot more money. But we also brought on board our Indian and the Leather pride titles, which have a history here in Indiana, and there's about 7 different titles that may or may not get competed for September 13th weekend, which includes our boot Blacks or Mr. I've made a whole website that has all this stuff. I know. It looks great. I can look at it. Indian and Leather pride sur in the Leather pride boy, Miss Indiana Leather pride. We have Indian and Leather pride boot Black in the Leather pride person of Leather, a partner title, which also could be Paul A. So warm too. Indian and Leather pride power exchange. And again, another partner title in the Leather pride master in slave. And so very much more along the leather spectrum of titles. And we're going to be doing that side by side with our Indian a pet pup and trainer, or in this case probably pet and trainer. So we've rented out a nice size conference center that we are actually both at the same time having trouble filling because we got too much room and actually we didn't have any trouble filling with, for example, education. We jumped from our not a contest weekends, there was no contest having at most 16 classes to we're having 34 different classes this year. That's awesome. We're having a formal dinner with a keynote speaker. We actually were able to snag the executive director of the Leather archives museum to come down and spend a weekend with us. And I know I can talk a lot, but he's got a radio voice and can do an hour long presentation on topic and it makes sense and never refer to a single freaking note and have you written in rapture with every single word. He makes me quite jealous. What else we have going on? Oh, of course we have all the contests going on. Plenty of parties. We're actually doing a play space inside the hotel. That's been a major change. This hotel is local to us and we're familiar with it. They've hosted other Leather style kinky events. So they're familiar with having a playroom and whatnot. That being a hotel conference center means everything is covered in purpose. We can't do it sex positive, but that's why you get a room there. That under a current of a sex positivity will definitely be there, even if not on display in public. You're going to set up a scar tent out back and may affect even do a cigar class. Again, led by the executive director of Leather Archives and Museum. We have our ten title contest. And oh my gosh, we have eight vendors this year and two museums. Oh, and the science and BDSM, I forgot about that. One of the coolest ever groups that actually doing studies on our mentality or headspace on our physiological changes that happened during kink will be on site actually giving two presentations and doing surveys and whatnot. And ways that protect your community, of course. Sure. But just really awesome group of people. And I love sitting in our class where they talk about the research they've done and the findings are getting out of it. For example, how much more mentally stable those of us in the kink tend to be in the general population. May seem kind of counterintuitive when we're shunned for being different. Sure. But just really excited to have them there. And I believe we're having the Carter Lee library and Carter Johnson. Carter Johnson library. And then the Leather Archives and Museums also doing a pop-up presentation at the event. And then of course, something near and dear to my heart, both Friday and Saturday, during the day, we'll have free onsite STI testing and education. Because that is incredibly important to our communities overall health. And one of my big passions has always been advocating against a stigma behind STIs. And trying to take care of us all because I'm sorry, having sex is fun. We shouldn't have to worry about it. This is true. If you get tested and know your status and take care of it, we would all be better off for it. Definitely, Cheryl. And the website for people who are wanting to learn more about Indiana Leather and Kink Weekend is ilkw.org. It is. That's Stanford, Indiana Leather and Kink Weekend. Hey! But you don't have to type it all out. So yes, we have all the details on there, including how to book Indiana Price Total Rooms, as in it's Indiana Affordable, unlike certain other events in Cleveland or Chicago or New York DC. Well, you know. So yeah, we're expecting a great turnout for that. And I expect assuming things go well in a few years will be even bigger and it might turn into an entire hotel complete takeover, which we would absolutely love to be able to do. That would be fun. Yes. So, before we transition into the part of the show, we like to call inside the Kinkster Studio. Anything else you would like to add about Puppy Play or the Leather and Kink Weekend? No, I hope to see you there. And there will be a lot of petster too, which is awesome because alongside the education this is again, it's a gigantic, it's so important to our community to have these larger events that are accessible, where we can all get under the same roof. Oftentimes, stay overnight, so you're not worried about drinking and driving or doing something stupid, where you can make a mini vacation out of it. And one of the things I always remember is the lightning and conversations that invariably happen, just sitting around getting to know someone new. How much I'll be able to do that weekend, I'm not sure, but this Puppy runs around a lot. Very fair. So, part of the show where we get to know you a little bit better as a person, as a Kinkster. We like to call it inside the Kinkster Studio. So, you game? Oh, I love games. I love it. Alright, so, how did you get into Puppy Play? All. So I started out in the leather community as a boy, or thought I was a boy. I guess I still am, mentally anyway. I didn't really know Puppy Play existed, there weren't a lot of role models in Indianapolis. We had one puppy down and blooming tonight, and he kind of became my inspiration, not as a mention going to IML, where puppies were becoming a larger and larger presence. And IML said, "Big gay men's leather event and contest in Chicago every day." As I get exposed, I'm like, "You know what, that fits me better." And then I became the local pup. Matter of fact, I didn't even have a puppy name. And that worked out fine for a year or two. Going to my local gay men's campground and wearing my puppy hood and having fun and barking and everyone and saying, "I am having lots of fun." And then more puppies started showing up. And or, I was at bigger events where there were a lot of puppies already there and found out to my detriment that when someone yells across the room full of puppies, "Hey, pup!" And 40 puppies turned her heads. You don't. It behooves you to have a proper puppy name. Now, puppies can get their names in multiple ways. It can be given to them. Typically, I mean, a puppy name to a puppy is kind of like a fat life name as to a straighter person or someone on that site becomes or kinky identity in many ways. And when they go by that name, they're in the puppy headspace. And when people like being given the two by a different owner or a handler or master or what have you, there's nothing wrong with coming up with your own name. Technically, there's nothing wrong with changing your name. So anyway, I gifted it by the community after dropping hints and actually being told I should be called spas. Which is not how I got into puppy play, but I'll just keep going if you want. Sure. So, yes, I was getting around quite a bit in terms of traveling around the general region and going to other events and definitely got a name for myself and people named me by my bark, which is very distinct and not appropriate for microphone. And some people to this day still at the gay campground know me as pop, which is also awkward there now because puppies are how the word work and filling up that campground as well. But it's kind of interesting what that name came from and how it was actually gifted to me by two people on the same night, two different people. So very much, you know, since I was named by my community, I might have dropped hints. But it was definitely a gift to me and been that way ever since. And now I've written it on everything or peded on things or... Yep. That is me, that that's my ultrasona that is oftentimes my default being. What's your favorite toy in your toy bag? My bone? That's fair. Wow. I figured that was a little too easy. Yeah, I know. I know what that was. No, I'm not as drawn to specific toys, but I always have my leather bone in my back pocket when I'm out and about representing as puppy. So any of our kinky events for gathering sport have you. And that is my security blanket, that's my my sucker that's a little, I don't know. What's that thing called? Passfire, there you go. Passfire? It's a pass fire for a puppy and when I put that bone in my mouth, I don't get yelled at when I chew on it. Fair. Fair. What are some of your catch phrases? Oh. I know there's a couple there, Spass Chat. So there's one of them. Oftentimes their puppy noises can get you in trouble sometimes when you're in the more vanilla or white collar world in a stand-up meeting, doing our work. We're barking at someone. I need you at one of my staff meetings to like, you know, get everybody to pay attention, your bark would just do it. Well, darn right. I think that my bark stems from it's definitely a deep guttural bark that would be similar to me using a drill sergeant voice, which I also have, but rarely ever use. What are the catchphrases? I mean, besides referring to fur and paws and having fun with the puppy mentality, anything. I'm sure there's a few others that I'm not thinking of, but you might have heard already. Maybe. I know we'll catch them if like, you know, people come out to the weekend and are around you. Oh, yeah. And I do get around. He needs to tap it. Just a wee bit. We're trying to. What's something people would be surprised to know about you just in general? Ha! Well, this is an interesting one. So pre-puberty, I've always been into diapers as a diaper lover. And that is transitioned into me early on in my 20s, or as soon as I got out of the Brent's house. And on my own, I became a 24/7 thing for me. So I'm always a padded puppy. And it's an interesting segue into the fact that little and puppies tend to have a greatly overlapping headspace, especially when it comes to parental or caregivers or having your Mahander or owner or human counterparts. So there's a lot of padded puppies out there. Also means I get a pee on everything and they don't yell at me when I pee under legs. I mean, that's fair. Unless you're in the water. Unless you're into water sports and then, you know, there might be disappointed that you're padded, you know, not pee. Exactly. And actually on their leg. But what amazes me is the amount of time I spent like, at a contest event and you know, I'm running these events and people know me or I think they know me or at least they've seen me on stage and I feel comfortable talking to everyone because, oh my God, I had a beer finally. And I'll just start talking about it and they're like, what, you're wearing a diaper? What's at all about? I'm like, how did you not know? So that's something strange that sometimes people don't know about me that I think is obvious as hell because it's just part of my everyday life. But it is true. I don't tend to run around just a diaper. So usually it's covered. Well, not always. Sometimes it's sticking out. I'm not too shy about it in our kinky spaces. Okay. So a question that I know a little bit asked your contestants as a judge and I might have two. Now it's time to turn it on you. If you had to have sex with one muppet, which muppet would it be and why? Does this include all of Sesame Street? If you'd like, yes. Yes, they're technically muppets and... And fraggle rock in the dark crystal and... Yeah, because there are all Jim Henson productions. Hey. Either the cookie monster? Because you know he can take the load. Or turn it to frog. If only because the sounds of him getting fucked and you're freaking amazing and put a smile on my face. I'm just picturing him shouting "Gay" and doing the warm wiggle face. My only real concern is they've got to be really fucking loose because they're constantly getting fisted. I mean Mrs. Chiro. So I think it would be more of a novelty, fuck. I mean if Hermit the frog was to go down on you, would that be a blowjob or a handjob? I don't know. Who's got a frog in the throat then? Um. If you're do 69, Hermit? I'm not that short. No, I couldn't. I don't know. At least he could jump up there. Well, does that be really hot too? Because I think it'd be fun to have someone small enough that I could hold them in a bear hug in my mouth and my arms while breathing. I'll just have never quite accepted that yet. I'm sorry I just got that visual. Yes, it takes a very special person to be able to fit in my arms and for me to hold them that long. So I was like, uh, just got that visual. All right. I've seen it in porn. It must happen. Just add them up it. Well that was not a bother. Seriously, but, not that it's easier with. That's nice, but you know, just, yeah. What's your favorite swear word? Oh, fuck, I don't know. Really? All right. Final question. You can invite any two people living or dead to dinner at your house. What are you cooking for dinner? I either go to American, steak dinner or a leg of lamb, which isn't so problem in the US. It's all the fixings. I'd make hot pockets. Wow. Sorry. Gandhi's coming to dinner and we're having hot pockets. I'm sure. I'm going to spas. No. What is the most joyful thing is I do with my beta puppies on occasion when we have a chance is I'll actually, you know, living alone or with one under person. It's oftentimes hard to fix seven course meals or maybe not courses, but your typical Thanksgiving spread or, you know, had made me to seven side dishes. So inviting people over for dinner or my betas and cooking a nice steak dinner and having all the sides to go with it and, and we all get served in puppy bulls at the table. And it's a lot of fun and food among friends is always a great way to share bonding experiences. This is chair. Especially when one of them gets under the table and pulls your pants down. That's called dessert. Well, sometimes I could mean appetizer. Yes, there could be an amuse of this, you know, whichever. After listening to the show, if somebody wants to get in contact with you or follow you on social media, how do they do that? All right. I see her. I'm on set life as pup spas. No space. One Z. Facebook as John Samson or Pups Baz. But you have to be a friend of a friend on Facebook because it's locked down a little bit. Come is @spazpop because someone stole my name. Oh, no, no, I got to read. I know jerks. And you can always reach out through the ILKW website in the end of lettering kinkweekend.org ILKWWW. There we go. Yeah, that's probably about it. Okay. Hey, well, thank you very much for being on the show and telling us about pup play and the weekend coming up for our listeners upcoming synagogue in person and virtual classes, including at Indiana, leather and kink weekend is chain fisting and our newest class being taught by a little bit called huff hearted, falling in love with pony play hands on a 201 class on pony play information on all of that and more on our website. Check it out. But with that, that wraps up our show. Say goodnight, little bit. Goodnight, little bit.