Ep19 - "Living in Accordance With YOUR Nature: Adapting Gor to Fit You" with Master Brian and Radiant Saphira

Ep19 - "Living in Accordance With YOUR Nature: Adapting Gor to Fit You" with Master Brian & Radiant Saphira

What is gor? How can you apply it to your life and your dynamic? What are the misconceptions and how can you live in contrast to what’s generally believed about Gorean Free and their slaves? Learn about Master Brian and saphira’s application of Gor in their dynamic and how it has empowered them to become their authentic selves. You will also learn what it means to treasure your kajira and what it's like being the most precious property, without -isms commonly associated with Gor.

Master Brian is a Gorean Master who has been a part of the community for over a decade. His passion is education, traveling the world to teach in vanilla spaces, and he hopes to do the same in BDSM/kink. On his left is his property Radiant Saphira, who has had the honor of being owned for 3 years. She is a proud kajira, leathergirl, and aspiring bootblack. Holding the positions of Secretary for leather sisterhoods Twin Cities Spectrum, a BIPOC back-patch leather club, and HardPink Sisterhood, for non-men-identifying persons. Together, they protect House Azura, an inclusive and interdisciplinary progressive Gorean/BDSM/Leather house.

• Fetlife.com/HouseAzura
• Fetlife.com/RadiantSaphira

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SINagogue hosts and guests are subject matter experts but not *the* expert. We believe outside of violating consent, there's no wrong way to kink except to think your way is the only way. The show is presented from a RACK (Risk-Aware Consentual Kink) point of view, not SSC (Safe Sane Consentual) because each person’s definition of safe is different based on their risk profile. Use of the word "safe" on the show fits our definition, and that doesn't have to be your definition. 

Reminder, we try to make our content as inclusive as possible regardless of gender, orientation, role in the lifestyle, etc., but we do inherently speak from our own point of view. We want to learn from our mistakes. If you feel like we said something offensive, let us know. Reach out via our website or call us at 469-269-0403.

Today’s show was brought to you in part by the letters S and M, and the Number 69. 

*San Dimas High School Football Rules*

Chapters

• 1:30 Introductions
• 10:43 Not A Religion
• 20:22 Two Tasks
• 33:18 How Gor is Different From Other Power Exchange
• 43:32 Mini Master
• 51:20 Slave Misconception
• 1:00:45 How They Discovered Gor
• 1:10:55 Final Thoughts
• 1:11:29 Inside The Kinkster's Studio

Transcript

1:14

Hosting with me today is my partner, my ADHD squirrel wrangler, my submissive, my brat, my little, my pony, or just my little pony. Uh, uh, uh, the milk to my cookies, little bit. Uh, uh, this is episode number 19 and with us today, our master Brian and radiant Sephirah to talk to us about living by your nature, adapting Gore to fit you. What is Gore? How can you apply it to your life and your dynamic? What are the common misconceptions, how you can live in contrast to what's generally believed about Korean free and their slaves? You will learn about master Brian and Sephirah's application of Gore and their dynamic and how it has empowered them to dig deep and begin becoming their most authentic selves. You will learn what it means to truly treasure your cajira and what it is like being the most precious property without the isms commonly associated with literature based applications of Gore. But first, a word from our sponsor. Master Brian is a Korean master who has been a part of the BDSM community for over a decade. His biggest passion is education. He travels the world to teach in vanilla spaces and hopes to one day do the same in BDSM kink ones too. On his left is his property, radiant Sephirah, who has had the honor of being owned by Master Brian for three years. She is a proud cajira, leather girl, and a spiring boot black holding the positions of secretary for both Twin City Spectrum, a BIPOC Backpatch leather club, and hard pink sisterhood, a leather sisterhood for non-men identifying persons. She is passionate about uplifting and celebrating the intersectionalities that make each person's experience unique and special. Master Brian as head and radiant Sephirah as the first girl protect house Azura and inclusive and interdisciplinary progressive Korean slash BDSM slash leather house. Reflecting on house Azura's motto to universe is ever expanding. And that's in Latin and I'm not going to pronounce it in Latin because it would be a disaster. Master Brian and radiant Sephirah believe that it is through knowledge sharing and community building that a person's universe of knowledge continues to grow. Thank you for being here in the synagogue. Let's talk green. Thank you for being here. Welcome. Well, thank you for having us. So I guess to start out, let me start off by saying there is a little saying from Gore no two masters are the same except as each is a total master and no two slaves are the same except that each are slave. So that's from one of the books that could you ignore so we can only speak about our live experience and the knowledge that is shared with us by those who have mentored us and support us over the years as a disclaimer. We are not a book accurate green master could you a couple and we don't claim to be nor are we alive action role players that you might see online through platforms such as second life or applications of Gore that can be described as a hybrid of leather. It's kind of like an old school BDSM mixed with ancient Roman pleasure slavery with a touch of Korean inspiration. That works. The green saga is a fictional science fantasy book series and it's made up of about 38 books give or take because they're more constantly coming out and they were authored by they were authored by John Norman who was a philosophy professor from Chicago and he really wondered what it would be like to live on a fictional planet that was kind of counter to earth. And he pulled from his favorite philosophical belief symptoms and sprinkled in ancient Roman pleasure slavery and the idea for this planet was that modern technology was not made available past swords in terms of development. And so humanity was seen to progress quote unquote naturally and so it was his idea on what could happen if the world didn't continue the way that it did on earth and that men had extra people assigned male up earth had extra testosterone women were hyper sexual and the storylines focus on people leaving earth to discover how their life was a result of suppressing sexual desire. And then they go on to discover what it means to be free of the binds of earth based society and this is probably going to be the last time you hear us talk about the books because our experience was community focused and interaction and focused and not very book heavy. So a couple definitions you're probably going to hear hear us use we say master slave master and mistress it just means owner the left side of the flash free is just those who do not identify as being property but are also not owners cajura is considered property whether it's male female non binary whatever it's just that's the property. So they're called cajura and we believe the Gore the Gore that we practice roles they're not gender specific as you would see in the books but truth specific so we'll touch more on that later on. And that's kind of something that the way we practice can get a little bit of flak from people that like to be more book focused but the idea that roles are not gender specific is something that we learned when we learned about Gore from other people who practice it and it's not something that people who are heavily into the books may support and it's something that we kind of get a little bit of push back on but we like the idea that the books when you take away specific characters and sort of like some of the messages that you can experience can go beyond specific gender and we like it as a framework for dynamics rather than a philosophical. Framework on how to be human so kind of like here's the boundaries here is what you like but not necessarily like hard and fast roles of like we absolutely have to use the book because the idea is like to enjoy it not be like you. Yes, yes of course just double checking thank you. Generally in the community a lot of times when people hear Gore or the people that have some kind of experience with Gore over the years the first thing they start thinking about is all assigned males of birth or masters no matter what all assigned females of birth are slaves doesn't doesn't matter everybody gets this idea of guys running around with big muscles and swords and the the cone and look and then all the ladies are these big beautiful long hair sexual objects that just run around and can't stop having sex with with everybody in this ultimate sexual desire or something and then slaves are dormant you know they have no thinking for themselves or anything like that they just they do exactly what we say when we say how we say it all times which and that's really not true. And we're not against people who consent to be that or find in their nature that that is the kind of slave that they want to be is to be one that to be one that I wouldn't say dormant but don't feel like they want to fall into the strong intellectual slave because last time we talked this class there was a slave that asked if it's in my nature to want to be a dormant and my welcome in this space and so we'll be like yes of course. But the negative connotation that you have to be that and it's forced on you in order to be a slave in this framework we we don't agree with sure. Sure. Well I mean it makes sense if it's you know if that's the consenting thing of hey this is what I want you know maybe my everyday life is just high stress and when I come home I want to be the I don't have to use this much brain power to do lots of different things I know my role I know my place I know you know I will be told as to what I want to do type thing. So that makes sense to be welcome in that space if that's what they would like to be. If I'm understanding that correctly. Yeah while we don't follow the green philosophy is as almost like a religious text like like some people do which is fine and that's that's for them it's just that's not how we do it. But understand we interact with each other it's helpful to know that there tends to be some overlapping and similarities between us and other green inspired dynamics. The basis of the green philosophy is a bit of an extension of Normans influence that he got from other people like Homer Freud, Aristotle, Nietzsche. I mean he was a philosophy professor so he was all over the place as far as how he got everything. But the green ethos is basically you know by living by a code the green ethos is like strength freedom honor integrity duty. So we found the codes as kind of like a ground for our life and to be true to them which the main thing about Gourmet is being true to your nature. So if you're being true to your nature you're for us that's you're doing the right thing and if it's in your nature that you're a master. Okay no matter what you were assigned at birth or however you identify if that's being true to your nature then that's it. If you in your heart believe that you're a slave or submissive a cajira then that's what you should do and be true to your nature. So that's where the main framework is is it's be true to your nature be true to who you are who you think you are and not how other people tell you to be. And so one way we do that is we find the codes that ground our life and we work to integrate them consistently and let them guide you. So the way that it presents itself in our household is so master follows military codes and has followed military codes since his enlistment and time in the army for those who may be listening in our gorean that would make him in the warrior cast. So that means the baseline codes for him and how he tries to live his life is with honor, respect, integrity and duty especially the duty to protect master and I spent some time being long distance and when I moved away I was able to figure out what my codes by myself are because for me since we entered into a dynamic is easy for me to identify with his. Because in go others this idea that the slaves ethics are that of their masters but it was important to me to figure out what they would be for myself as well and in my journey I've found to identify with leather codes so respect honor loyalty honesty service siblinghood as as a household we wanted to kind of combine them and find where they overlap and find ways to. To do our household with our home stone and our houses codes are honesty integrity equity respect discipline scholarship and community what does living by our codes mean it's not just verbally saying you follow them but again as I said previously integrating them into your life and learning how to do better. And if you come across various dilemmas that can be present or pop up. So living in a cordon steer nature the main one for us is being true to yourself like we said this one is where gorg gets a bad name and it can lead to arguments between the traditional side of of certain people in gorg and the inclusive gorean. And in house or those that we are in the community with we amend the core principles to live in accordance with your nature and to be true to yourself not just be true to what it says that you should be. This means not denying who you are because of what others believe you to be or even what you think you should be this can be big and this can be in small ways because I know that sounds really intimidating. And I know master touched about this previously if in your heart you feel submissive be it if you think you have a slave heart nurture it if you feel like your gender does not match the sex you were assigned at birth. We will be the right or die as well support your want to express it in a way that feels most you because for us that feels like living your truest nature or on the smaller end if you don't want to go somewhere saying no to the invitation and. We will say this does not mean to use I'm living true to my nature as an excuse to be a predator or dangerous person because choices in real life are dictated by requirements that are placed on us by how I powers that is why that there is no one to one between the books and real life earth because in the books they just pick up. Humans and kidnap them and drop them onto a planet and say hey you are are here I'm going to tackle you to the ground and you are now my slave you can't really do that legally on earth. But within the best of your ability it's striving to be the you on the outside that fits the inside or putting in the work to figure out what it is or who you are on the inside when you peel away the layers which can be difficult. And it's not really a one size fits all there is no more despite as I'm sure you've come across for other sub cultures the one true way is arms and they're all over fat life of course as well sure for goryans to. For us what that looks like like for sephira it was battling body dysmorphia or conquering her internalized racism that she had for herself being of a different race than like me or choosing a career path that brought professional fulfillment over what her. Family piety told her to do also also means living in harmony with the world around you and finding beauty in the world that houses you and living in a way that supports. What you are so this could be spending time in nature it could be recycling it could be admiring nature from the inside just how it is for us. Yes I enjoy looking at the beauty from outside well inside with a window in between us because. I know we said we're not going to reference the books they do talk about the beauty that comes from nature when there's no pollution when the modern technology hasn't. It's not just caused trash to be places or what it's like when mother nature can just take over spaces and be free so we have met quite a few goryans who like to lean into that aspect as well as living in accordance with nature as well as living accordance with their own nature. For me being a green master what that means to me is protect the property with every ounce of my being that is number one the top thing first rule protect the property. And you protect that you're the master you protect it with every ounce of your being a matter of what for myself having be bestowed the title master means that I live up to the expectations and the tenants of our house and of gory and. The peers that actually gave me that title so being a master is taking something of raw beauty such as as your cajira and polishing it and turning it into this radiant jewel pun intended. As a master you know you're not only responsible for yourself but you are responsible for that property so no matter the action or consequence you are master you are responsible in every way. And if it's not performing correctly it's on you being a master is to have someone trust you so much that they are letting you make decisions for them. In every way that even if they don't agree with you but they're trusting you that much to to do that and make that those decisions. And as a cajira I will say a gore adapted dynamic can feel a little bit more like owner property compared to master slave in the way that we talk about cajira as property and being treasured and. That possession aspect there we use master slave language because that's the way that it was framed by the author. As a cajira you'll hear things thrown around that a cajira's one task well two tasks but they kind of mold it into one is exquisite beauty and absolute obedience. This one was hard for us to I don't want to say identify with this was hard for us to figure out how it applied to us because coming in beauty feels the idea of beauty especially as someone who grew up in an area that did not reflect what I looked like. The idea that it's my expectation that I have to be found exquisitely beautiful was intimidating and a little anxiety inducing to be honest so we tweaked it a little bit to be exquisite individuality and intelligent obedience. So for me this means being a cajira is nurturing the parts of myself that make me different and special to my master. So expanding beauty to be all things so it is my personality it is my mind it is my hobbies it is my ADHD and so many more things. It is a journey of seeing me as a treasure to him which is the hardest part still even from the beginning to now the hardest part of what I call my silks journey exquisite individuality is the increasing desirability and connection between myself and my master as the bond grows. So has my belief in myself on what makes me special and that specific way and only I can serve him and only I can be his property. I very much do not like this misconception that cajira have to be doormats and mindless slaves because they serve for their master's pleasure and happiness. One of the biggest assets for my master is my mind and it is my duty to obey intelligently and smartly look him in the eye and say. And I do quite frequently respectfully absolutely the fuck not when he asked me to complete in order that goes against our household's first rule of protecting the property. The cajira my obedience stems not from fear like in the books in the books it's very much rooted specifically in the sphere of the slave whip but I personally love seeing master pleased and so you'll hear a lot of cajira say that their second or third mission is to please and be found pleasing. A lot of times it's framed just sexually but for us we like to expand that as someone who is ace flux to be that I like to please master in always and be found pleasing in many things not just sexual so that's his pride that's his happiness that is his love. Many times when I ask him master are you pleased or if I'm in a space that I need that affirmation I will ask him why if he's when he says yes and he will list off so many things and not within the top 10 will it be. A sexual reason and I feel like that's a big misconception for how gore can be applied. A lot of questions that we get asked is why gore why why did we even use gore why do people use gore and my mentor or one of my mentors master dean I asked him that same question. At the very beginning I was like why why gore why why this why why this book and he goes well everything needs a starting point everything needs a name. So there's your answer and I was like oh good god but what we've kind of find out is the bottom line of it was the gore concepts kind of provided a nice framework to follow for MS and the people that we've talked to is that's how we've pretty much figured it out you know on one hand there's a lot of rituals there's a lot of structure and a lot of protocols that present that were. They were good for starting places to build an MS dynamic on for us on the other hand there was an emphasis on complete openness from a slave girl in a collar that's not allowed in emissions this removes us from half truths lies by omission or you know just uneasiness or the invasive or anything like that so we love the structure that the protocols and rituals from the books give to our dynamics. Part of those rituals and some of the things that we took was branding for starters she does have a brand she has a could you. Tattoo or a adina on her left leg. We did it as an actual tattoo because I in the books they do it with an actual hot 500 degree brand for seven seconds or something like that I personally I do know people that have done that I personally do not do that with my slave because of the fact that I to me that would be scoring her and that's that's damaging my property that's not that's not making it better that's so. We chose that type of brand a lot of people do to there's the coloring the fact that you know your collard would be another one of the big things from the books as far as the dynamic that we go of your could you. Master may I jump in please. So to give more context on the branding and coloring within the I said I'm not going to reference the books but here I'm ever seen the books so in the books the humans were taken from earth put on to counter earth which I can't believe they named it counter earth and go. So when they became slaves this what this was this idea that the brand marks the status the collar mat the collar signifies the ownership and so there's a specific place on the body which is either which is most commonly the left hip of where the brands could be there are the ones you see most frequently all over fet life which is a calf which is a cursive K. I have a dinner which is known as the slave flower and the reason why we picked it is because it looked like the sempegita flower which as a Filipino American it was a very important flower for me and we loved that way it could tie into my personal identity. And in terms of the collar you see them a lot now it's called the tour in color you'll see them mostly in be the same spaces as the metal like eternity collar or infinity collar that metal circle it collar was very prominent in the books and that type of style they marked as a tour in color because the masters would grab and have space for a master's fist to hold a collar and pull their slaves around. And so we love that we've been able to include brand day and coloring into our dynamic and like in the books when a slave is called their gifted a name and so that is when he named me Sophia. Back to you master. Yeah and then some of the other things that you'll definitely see people doing are the green slave positions like the Nadu or the submission position or you know card a tower position certain position to be collared. You know we've seen pictures of all over fat life of people doing different versions of these positions by no means am I saying that the norm and invented them or anything but you know for us you know those positions that certain names that's where they came from. Then you have the green style serving that that she does or how she serves me when she's serving something in that one act he got that more from like the Roman slaves of how they serve. Any time that somebody sees her giving me something such as like food or drink they'll see her kiss it or hold it up to her lips and they always think that that's what she's doing is kissing it quite honestly that's not what she's doing. Actually and people kind of laugh and they figured out they're she's actually testing it for boys. It must be symbolizing her her testing something for boys and trying to keep her master safe. And then there's the green style clothing such as the canmasks or the silk that they wear around a lot of the slaves were around the standing permission that you can take away you know their ability to eat or speak or anything like that at any time. Healing to the left side and there are always two spaces back you know when you're in high protocol areas kneeling in the presence of your master not having eye contact like you see a lot of high protocol things. The court and the court is kind of the hard one to explain without actually seeing it but what the court is is we talked about the slave whip. So masters definitely have a court when they become a master they get one or you are gifted the ability to have one and what the court is is it's a slave whip with five tails they're about two inches wide and about two and a half feet long and they're there's five of them in their leather and then they are on a two foot handle. And as a fear or just about any other could you or can tell you is very intimidating and hurts very much so and they all feel that hurts when they become a good year now I want one. And then that would be my red that's a red for me well. I can let you see it and yeah I can tell you this much I can even tell you who could make you one and where who made mine. I have I have a couple I have my my old mentors before he passed away. And then I have the one that was that was personally made for me by another Korean master who is a other worker who is a very skilled other worker at that and did just this beautiful job making my career. And actually was even the one also one of the ones you know that that when we were getting to both of us kind of you know looked up to even even them. You know showed me actually how to swing the thing not hurt somebody. But then you know you have the adaptist part of like the white silk which oh white silk. If they're in the camister silks white soaks it books it it's like the fire that somebody was a virgin and they were in training for us it's you know obviously they're they're not virgins but if you have somebody that's a training and just coming into the lifestyle and learning from another cajira they're in a white silk until they graduate up into their colored soaks. And then the home stone that we have which is just every Korean group or master has a home stone is house and then like our house has a home stone and it's just a symbol of hey that that you're Korean. I will add more context. Thank you. So in the literature there was this idea that the white silks were very much protected right so that they either had lower duty so they could learn about themselves so the reason why we have white silks in our household is because when we were learning about this and when I was learning about myself I did not feel ready to take on this. I was just identifying as being a full red silk so red silk means pleasure slave right so I didn't feel comfortable taking on that role because the cajira that I looked up to and was learning from I was like how can we have the same title or how can we be the same level if I don't feel like I'm very yet so we wanted to adapt the white silk to be like this. So you're in a transitional period where you're finding yourself you're figuring out what it means to be in this role or be yourself and learn from your like silk siblings or that aspect of learning and training and not knowing yet instead of virginity because that is an antiquated idea that sure I reject. So for home stones it's kind of the foundational rock of what a house is built on so you'll have houses that have home stones in the books you'll have towns that have home stones and for them to start a war sometimes they'll go in and like steal each other's home stones so it's something that's very much treasured and protected in terms of like this is what we gather around or this is something that has like the houses. Scripped on it the name on it like this is like a physical tangible thing that represents us being a community together. I was going to ask just by how both of you were describing it was is this an actual tangible you know physical thing that you know you have that your home stone or is it more of just like you know not just like here this is our home and our house is saying you know that type we actually we actually do have a home stone all most Korean masters have their own home stone you can use anything you want as a home stone. And then the masters mentor it was funny because ours is we picked lapis lazuli as like our home stone we have like a beautiful lapis and because of its connection with education intelligence the significance throughout history and so ours is small and when I moved to Minnesota I was feeling very much away from him and away from his household so he gifted me a tiny little a tiny little lapis to be my satellite home stone which kind of through some other gory and masters through a tizzy because a slave having their own home stone. That's crazy. Yeah so there are folks that have a home stone that just stays in their house and it will be in like a central location like a living room or a great room and then they'll travel around with like a smaller version like the traveling home stone and the masters mentor picked this had giant rocks in front of his house one of them was his home stone but it was a secret which one it is because it's supposed to be kept safe and secretive because you don't want someone to steal it for you and so apparently I never knew which one it was but he picked one the heaviest one that you can't but you can't move because you can't steal it. So you know you know you know you know you know you know you know you know you know you also mentioned you know feeling disconnected so at the same time you know from an outsider's perspective that's one of those like oh hey that makes sense to have something that you know hope you feel connected when you're far away. Absolutely and it got to the point that we even got me a bracelet of lapis beads so I could feel the protection of his home stone whenever I went to events by myself or even just traveled home to see my family or even I'll put it on now when I go to work because it feels like it's engulfing me in the protection of the home stone when we're not together. So I love it. I think it's something that's unique and as someone who likes crystals it's like oh it's another reason to have a thing. But it also personalizes things for you too. Which is awesome. That's really cool. People ask us like how is being a green different from from normal MS and we can only speak on what we've heard in in the different between you know between our dynamic and those who are in the MS dynamic and are either rooted in leather or EDSM. So I think it's closer to owner property like I said earlier but could you are pretty much just being slave girl and luck had your means I am slave girl. That might be why it's more referred to as an MS type of dynamic. So the first biggest difference between that I've found when I talked to other slaves is the roles as identity from what I've heard there are slaves that identify a slave within relationships. And my dear friend she will tell me she was like if I am not with my master I identify as a submissive with a slave heart. I have the potential to being a slave to the right master. And sort of this idea that them and their master met as equals and she lowered herself to be a slave. For me as a cajira because I've earned my brand even without his collar I still hold on very tightly to that to that title. I don't see myself as a submissive with a slave heart. I am a cajira because that identity was nurtured together. Yes but also very individually and I view my status as inherently being at that level of a slave not equal with my master until I lowered myself. And I don't mind being on different planes with my master in terms of like where our status if we weren't together would be because I view myself as sort of. So he is a car guy I view myself as like a 1960s fancy vintage car that he will take a Q tip and like and and dust to keep in mint condition until until the car like I love you before going to bed. I've also found that at least in the tiny community that we learned in that like the title of master in the gorean context is given similarly to the title of master in the leather community. We're not saying that it's a one to one master never claims that he is a leather covered master because that's very very different. But he took up that title when his mentor told him okay it's time for you to do this and it's time for you to identify like this. And so he would also continue to stay a gorean master even if he didn't have a cajira at that moment. And so there's this idea that as you become your role because you're living out your truest nature it's it's not relationship based it's very much like human you based and so I feel like that's a little bit of a difference in the way that the titles and the names and the roles kind of function between a gorean ms and what we've heard from our friends who are not gorean but in ms dynamics. I mean even even if our if our dynamic ended tomorrow so her brand marcher as a cajira she's always going to be that a cajira. It's the collar that's around her neck that that identifies her as owned property. So even if I take my collar back or take my collar away and she's not my slave anymore she's still a cajira. I'm if she's not my slave I'm still a master I'm just not her master. Gotcha. So it's an principle that just the things that you know it's it's who you are and once you've earned that that's that you you've earned it. You know as long as you're living within your your core principles of living in accordance with your nature and living true to to your codes. Exquisite individuality and intelligent obedience for us or the pleas and the be bound pleasing you know you then for us you're you're doing it right. So everything that we've found different or at least I have found different as someone who has come from a different type of power exchange dynamic a de us to a gorean adapted master slave is the kind of significance to the positionings and the gorean slave positions. And I'm sure we've talked about how you see them all over fat life it was one of the first things that I ever learned about when I was researching like what is the s what are submissives it's that that stock image of all the de different positions that you can find on google images. But as I've grown as a cajura and learn that there's like a special vulnerability that comes with them like for example not do the reason why your knees are open or your palms are up it's supposed to signify this complete open vulnerability at the most vulnerable parts of you are all open on display in the most vulnerable way possible to your master. And so that is a position that I will only do in front of him or in front of mini master which is an amazing night fury stuffed animal that I got before we moved that I would take to events with me so I would stand on mini masters left I would do positions to mini master if I had to put on my collar. And so the ways in which the positions function or what it means to for example me or my friend who is a different slave who more use them for discipline as sort of like personal discipline on on ways to move their body and stress positions felt very different when we were talking about them to each other. Speaking about the little master actually so yeah it's a little night fury it's a little stuffy it actually has a recording on it that she knows what it says and that she can listen to with my voice when she's not when I'm not around but when we were long distance and she's taking this little mini master with her you know somebody would try to like sit on her left hand side. And she would put the mini master in the chair and you know they walk out and start to move it she's like oh no that's my master's spot that's mini master or you know you have big bad dom you know I'm going to go and steal this girl away and they would come up and they start talking to her ask where master was so they could ask permission to talk and she would be like points a little mini master and you know you got big bad master now that has to. Ask literally ask this little stuffy can I talk to your slave and then for the slave to lean down and like act like it's whispering to her and she goes no it doesn't get permission and you know I actually got four calls on this from from friends of minutes so that we admit and they were like you know one of them John he was like B. You know the funniest thing I've ever seen is this big old dude thinking he's all big and bad walk up and ask her girl if he can talk to her and she tells him to ask the stuffy so now he's got to talk to a stuffy and then her to look at him and go he says no go away now. You know I just get put in their place. I wish I could have saw I wish they would have been able to talk to them. I just like it seemed this but yeah it's got to be a great way to just blow up. Absolutely fantastic. I agree it was something I had lived very one night because when we're together when we're together I am under communication restrictions and I'll say I'm not going to talk to you. I'm under communication restrictions and I'll have a little tag on my collar that says ask to interact and so people see the yellow tag and then they'll ask him. They'll then talk to me as someone who has a lot of social anxiety going to an event being like I'm alone. I don't have a human buffer. What do I do and so someone came up to me try to negotiate play with me and I was just like here shove it in his face and what you have to talk to many mass there. I am under communication restrictions and it just it's stuck and it's it's amazing. That's awesome. It's it's great hearing all these like stories from your friends like far away about it and they're just like oh wow yeah. Like I'm going to steal that. Oh my gosh. And so I will say the final difference that I have heard between me and my other friends who are slaves is the why. Why do slaves render why do slaves submit my friends who have had this conversation with me have expressed and I've heard reasons that are kind of self focused. They love that it's a way to relax. It's a way to let go. They like the feeling of shutting down their mind and exchanging that power for me and for some other cajeras that I've learned from it's to please. It's kind of a more external reason specifically of to please and be found pleasing and that is the entirety of the external reasoning and like that's like the end all bill is that. And so that low guess of why is it internal is it how you feel versus external and I know that's there's like a whole range in between because of course I like shutting off my brain. But if I personally had to weigh the feeling of being able to be in a slave head space and the benefits of feeling that control being transferred to master versus the look on his face when he. He is absolutely happy at something I did. It shifts all the way to the second as like my number one and then everything else is subplates. And we we've I mean I I have definitely caught some slack over this from a couple different masters in the community. She I've had people walk up to me and even my mentor and be like you're letting your could you run around and play and joke and doing this and that and I'm like yeah. Well no you should be doing this and that and I'm like why will because that's not proper way to let them run or be and I'm just like. So her job her one job is to please me and she's amusing me as much as you can get and I'm sitting or laughing and I'm happy and I like watching it so wouldn't she be doing what she's supposed to be doing because I'm happy or I've had masters be. That enough to challenge her on on certain things or other could you on certain philosophical issues or things like that and have thought that they were going to pull the master card of basically shut up on master you're you're just going to take what I say and that's it and I've seen her go off on. And I've told their speak your mind that that is I don't want to do or man I didn't ask for one there's a reason I pick somebody that was highly educated that will definitely tell you what they think. And I've had masters tell me your girl your slave went off on me like this and she treated me like that this night and I can't believe that you let her act like this and I'm just I'm looking at all things and I'm just like. Yeah I'm amused as you can get laughing as far as I can go that she just put you in your place she did her job real well I can't stop laughing. So you know it's like yeah you can sit there and tell me all you want but she's doing exactly what I trained her to do I trained her to please me and that's what she's doing so just because you don't agree with how she's doing that well that's fine. She's doing what she's supposed to for me and she's not your slave. There is this I hate that this exists this idea in some circles that a cajira cannot negotiate because to negotiate means that you have property that you have things to negotiate. And I think that the idea that slaves are unable to negotiate their dynamic is pushed in spaces and I very much push back I will be like we are on earth do you see a giant bird that's the size of an SUV that flies you places no. You can't apply this as a one to one because it doesn't exist it's a fictional world and that is one of the things that I push back heavily on whenever I come across it and that's and it usually comes from the folks who then will look at him and be like how dare your slave one not address me as master because I was assigned male at birth and two they are speaking to me disrespectfully. And he'll just be like why why I don't heal just laugh and be like you're the one that said you are the one that has these ideas that she's pushing back on but also by your own logic why are you arguing with a slave and lowering yourself to that position I am amused and he'll laugh in the little corner. But yes I am there are some there are some beliefs in some of the more traditional gore spaces that we try actively to push back on. And that is one of them is that this idea that slaves cannot negotiate because how could slaves have power to negotiate if they are property and are supposed to be lower than animals. Yeah I'm definitely a firm believer when it comes to you MS dynamics in general you never negotiate from a place of power you are both on even ground when you do negotiations that's a if you're doing it from a from a place of power or above them then how are you getting there on a stance or on what they really want or or what they're comfortable with so they should never have that fear that if I if I don't agree to this they're not going to like me or this or that it should always be from an equal standpoint. And yeah that so that that hold I'm just going to grip you by the hair and drag you around and you're just going to be mine. I man hear me roar just yeah we don't agree with that so it sounds like you do a gore different than most people do gore. So my question would be why still do gore and not do something else. Like I said it makes it you know it was a good framework and you know everything needed a name and if I ever thought of some different name and wanted to come up with a bunch of different things then maybe I would but the person that introduced it to us or the people that introduced it to us and then you know how they were doing it and based on it it just it fit for us. It was one of those things that until we started offering this class that we didn't know we apply it so differently because the little the little space where we learned as well as where we practice there's a lot of overlap that think the same that we do. So when we then offered our class for the first time and then got the feedback of like no switches cannot be you can't be a switch as a as a gore and you cannot have different pronouns and all these things you're like whoa hold on we're confused. So even sometimes we honestly ask ourselves why we why we call what we do gore but I think it's also because of what the root in essence it is since it's still that heavily focused on nature and that experience of the characters when you take away all the different generals that are forced onto them that story of figuring out who you are and finding joy and being that. I think that's the one thing that keeps us linked to that name that's her. I mean honestly if we follow the the the base guideline of live in accordance to your nature yours and I've had this discussion with people I've had people ask me we were open Kansas City and we were doing like a round circle on it and I had a trans person ask me they really could I be a master or could I be a cajura and. I was like is that within your nature of of do you feel like you're a cajura and they said yes but you know the general consensus is I'm trans I can't I can't do this I looked at him and I said who I'm first of all who am I to tell you what you can't or can't do I'm sitting here telling you to do what's in accordance with your nature not mine or my floss years of my my thoughts. I'm seeing within yours and if that's what you feel in your heart that that's what you are then who might tell you you can't be this no matter what you were how you were born. So that yeah we caught some slack over that one for sure if I'm following my core philosophy which is living accordance to my nature then I shouldn't be able to tell anybody what they can or can't do especially just because you were born with a penis. Or if you were born with a vagina or whatever you were born with a at birth you know it it's just wrong to tell somebody that they have to be something because just because. And the narratives that we hear pushed forth most are also the narratives that kind of ignore the pieces in the books that reference that there are other places that have completely different cultures and that again as we quoted in the beginning no to home stones no two towns no to households are the same even in the fictional world that. People try to apply so religiously so then why is it when it's pulled into real life there's this one true way is that hyper focuses on one aspect of the books or one character's journey through the universe and says that's the only way that it can be applied when even in this universe it's acknowledged that. Things are totally different wherever you go from dress to brands to how the slaves serve but with anything there's going to be those voices and narratives that are dominant that can try to force people to all do the same. Were these books intended to be a belief system or was that something that just kind of happened oh no. No no no as a matter of fact Norman when he's been asked in interviews he. Sporers up and down that you have nothing to do with the SM or anything like that now. That he didn't expect anybody to try to apply them at all because they were supposed to be a very thought provoking philosophical just lens for him of like what could happen if everything was opposite of what it is now. Which we find amusing that it could have been anything like it could have been that there is like what if Harry Potter turned into like turned into like a lifestyle thing of like instead of don's and subs they have different houses and like all the way that they all interact. I feel like it was just especially because the protocols are so written out and when it was published it was around still the time of story of oh so those were like the two big kind of BDSM ish kinky books and they kind of just got held on to and identified with by subgroups of people. But I do not think that it was supposed to be a philosophical thing especially now in the spaces because I sometimes do find myself in Facebook groups of people just to see what's happening especially now with how. With the debates in terms of culturally which way we go it seems that people are moving even more towards this divide between can it be applied in like a BDSM kink space or is it something that is almost a religious calling and that divide keeps getting larger and larger. Even in the four years that we've applied it amongst ourselves. Gotcha. So how did the two of you discover Gore? It was me this is what this is all I'd be. So we started as a daddy baby girl dynamic a DDL G and it just something just didn't feel right I felt like I always needed more and as much as I love my master he was trying so hard to be a daddy dumb it just like it didn't it didn't mesh well with him and who he is as a human. And so now I identify as more of like a latchkey little like I will do the things by myself and he will support me and and like exist as like kind of like. Well we're a sister house with a house of middles and little and they'll refer to him as like the grumpy uncle that is supportive like they're. And so I found myself always wanting more I was like for some reason I just really want either more control given away I don't like this idea of being propped up as his little princess like I there's there was something very much missing and at that time we ran into another couple that. And so I practiced it and the way that I saw them look at each other and kind of the pride in his eyes when he looked at his cajira and kind of that serenity or like serene nature that she had on her face and in her body you can tell that she felt so empowered and so. And so I turned to him and I was like oh do you want to try master slaves and the look on his face went oh my god no no no no no hell no. And so then I was like okay let's let's try to read the books and see what happens and so then I read the books and I'm like oh master look at this and it went even farther for him to be like uh oh no no no no no no no no. This is the worst written book I've ever read. Why? Because even in the spaces that do follow it really just leave there is an acknowledgement that there are just paragraphs that are like copied and pasted that he will describe a tree for like two pages and then anytime you see that tree it's literally the same text copied and pasted that's not denied my. Wow. Oh we never said he was a good writer. And so. And so I just I then had to do the search of okay how do you apply this and so I did something I wasn't expecting I like search through fat life and was like okay but like how is this actually used and we came across as mentors writings because he got this question a lot of like what is this how do you apply this and so I found writings out where maybe 10 years old and. Every day I would just send him one and be like hey look at this thing hey hey also look at this thing look this is what it does this is how you apply it to it see it's not as bad and he slowly got more interested because he had never seen himself as a master he had never he had this kind of view of like the micromanaging image of what it means to own someone and have a slate. And then of course being in an interracial relationship there were like all the different layers that comes with having a white master and a Filipino pleasure slave right there's like very there was a lot of things we had to work through. But then he took that class and was able to do the equivalent of what I did when I went and I talked to Kijir and being like hey what do you get out of this what is this like for you please tell me how you found this and when he talked to his mentor I could almost see when it clicked in his brain of like oh I think I think this makes sense for me now and I think that hearing the story of how. Hearing the story of how his mentor came into things helped him take that step. Meanwhile we were have we were getting I was getting called into intervention circles by friends being like are you sure you want to be a slave are you okay are you safe because the community that we're in at the time our friend circles are very kink heavy not power exchange heavy. So us even being a ddlg was a lot for them but then going to that I won't say next level because I don't like the tiered system that some people play some power exchange but then going on to like owner property or master slave. We had a bunch of concerned friends but thankfully we've been able to lower their concerns as we've been together and being in an MS dynamic. I was pretty much like everybody else that are out there people I've met I had a lot I've heard I'd heard a lot of stereotypes I had heard a lot of misconceptions on different things I'd also heard a lot of horror stories. And I was like there's no way in hell I'm doing this this doesn't even sound appealing not even remotely and then I met master Dean and took his class and I walked up to him after the class. I was like I asked him a couple questions but then you know then I asked him like the ultimate question of okay so these are like really bad written bucks. Why why gore why this why do you call it this why not something else and he literally looked at me and dead straight face just went well. Because everything needs a name and I was like that's why this is. Oh wow it clicked it was like oh shit everything does need a name man guy he just got you philosophical bastard but you know and then after talking to him you know us like writing back and forth because he. He lived in the middle of Illinois but I would bug the crap out it with like little questions hey what about this what about that and to the guys credit he was he was nice enough to take the time to write me back and and be like here's this and here's that and then you know he also introduced me to. To another person Sir Walter which is a friend of ours and her friends with his house who also had a cajure at the time and had followed a lot of the philosophies and so I got to talk to him too and I sat there and heard like his side of it along with master Dean's I met other people that were. There were older that you know did not do this how I had always heard from these from like the die hard people of oh you can't be like this or you have to be like that and I got to see like a different progressive side of it and then we also knew black diamond and his amira and we knew they were cajure and master and diamond and I I talked for a while and you know I started here his philosophies on it and both of us were you know. Like diamond being in an African American male you know he had caught a bunch of slack from people that he couldn't be a master because because of his race and just you know ridiculous things that we had we had heard all these different things and we all just were like you know we're going to do our thing and you know be damned with what other people think. And the more we did it we found out that there were other people out there that that had been changing things and then one day we all just sat down and we're like you know what let's let's go ahead and make a group and let's let's do an event we we we did a we made a group called the Midwestern collective where we all joined into it and you know started getting more people joining and talking to us and then we found people in Minnesota that did it. And then we found people in Iowa and out on the different coasts and we were like oh we have to throw a green gathering now where we can get all these people together we had a bunch of people come together and we try to do these like her once a while to where we'll do a gathering where we get a bunch of different Koreans or people that just want to learn about it to come and we'll do like a weekend thing where everybody will get together. And stuff like that hopefully actually we're hoping to do one maybe next year in Kansas City next because the whole point to when we made the Midwest green collective is for to be like a traveling home stone to go all over the place for the different classes we didn't want to do something like like you would see with a kicky college or something like that or you know this big cont thing where it's all in the same place every time we wanted to move around and we wanted to move around. And we wanted other people to host it and you know see what they're how they did their things and how they wanted things to do and what they thought that this should be like and give other people a chance to show what they they were doing with it. So it's just kind of a grown. Before we start to transition into the part of the show we'd like to call inside the Kingston studio is there anything else you would like to share about Gore and your take on it. Not for me I mean I think we pretty much covered what we know. I would like to say something switches I see you. We have friends that always ask I'm a switch can I do this and I would say heck yeah yes be true to your nature you feel both sides you live both sides. Now we come to the part of the show where we get to know you in a little bit different way a little more interesting and fun way. Are you down? Heck yeah. All right well then let's go inside the Kingston studio and here's the first question I have for you. If you had a pet parrot what would you teach it to say? I think I would teach it to say absolutely the fuck not because that is like because for me as someone who is both a slave and a little I say that to my master when he is either on the verge of like going past his body limits or like working himself to the bone. It feels like as a little it's like my little like sliver of power that I'm like this is the one thing I have control over so I think it'd be hilarious if like when he's just doing things our parrot is just like no you can't do it. Yeah you would teach it that. Oh it's real simple for me I would make it square if I snap my fingers this thing would scream out master wants coffee now. Get master coffee master coffee now. What's your favorite toy in your toy bag? Oh boy this is hard. I would say probably the the one I really really like the most because it just every time I pull it out I see people cringe would be this this hockey puck. But it's not like the normal hockey puck you see because the handle is it flexes. So when you hit somebody with it like bounces a couple times. So instead of just being like a hard handle like on a on a racket ball handle or something like that like you always see or like a golf handle it actually like moves with it too so when you swing it bends a little bit then it whacken then. So it's a certain bounces a couple times. Is that the one that also has the fight like the tire tread on it? Now that's the other one I have two of them and I have another one that's even longer that on one side is a hockey puck but on the other side has a tire tread attached to it. So it's a hockey puck with a tire tread and yeah that one's pretty mean too but that one that bounces you just you don't expect to get hit and then get hit again. Yeah. Like brother that sounds like worried of your alley except. Yeah definitely not for me for that but I'm wondering about like you know your other play partner if they would like it. Oh for my favorite thing in his kit so I love electrical play his violet wand is currently out of commission. So I have two things that I absolutely love one is like a metallic fabric that's like a blanket because when he hits me with the violet wand it like dances like electricity lightning all over your body wherever it's touching you and he'll say like star wars sif quote does it because it's the lightning and then I also love this like carbon fiber rod with with rope around it so it jumps from metal piece to metal piece to metal piece and when you drag it down your body it feels like you're getting cut open it's a wonderful nice. Yeah the pixie stick stuff. Have you tried conductive rubber yet? Well carbon fiber just it is so conductive so it doesn't lose any of the power no matter how long it is really so you can use a longer piece and it's not going to be less effective not to tip because it's a foot and a half long like normal things would just have like a little bit of it would lose a little bit of the spark and then you have this piece of 50 cord that's all rainbow color that wrapped around it. It's a rainbow it can't be bad. And you know it's got little spaces in between the and between the 550 cord was been wrapped around so it's not wrapped around so tight that it's touching it leaves little gaps. So when you run that thing down you that 550 cord breaks up where you're getting touched with that rod so it is fabulous. It feels like knives cutting you wide open as this thing just jaggedly shocks the crap I guess. If you can't tell me miss electrical pleasure. What was your first email address or screen name and why did you pick it? Go ahead master. Oh actually remember mine. Okay I'm old. So I had a hotmail account and I was in the military so it was late late 90s. I had to have an email account because I was going overseas and to talk to your family and friends they were like okay you have to set up the email account and and this and that and the other and I had to pick a name and I'm just like oh my god I don't know what the hell do I use because I tried to put my name in and like that wasn't coming up and I tried putting this other stuff in and it wasn't coming up. I was actually getting ready to go out on a patrol. I was in the infantry in the military and one of my buddies screamed out hey do you need any aluminum rounds for your 203. For 203 grenade launcher and I went aluminum rounds and I put aluminum in and it was like okay that's taking that's taken but how about aluminum 60 and I was like you know it's good I'm sick of trying here. Yeah we're going to go with that it's good so my very first one was aluminum 60 years. Yours is cool mine's not so I am a Jen's ear so of course so growing up in grade school we had to take computer typing classes and I just set up my first email in class with my legal name at schooladdress.edu. It wasn't fun. I'm so sorry. I think that was probably the same for me too even though I was a Jen exer so I don't know you got me thinking they're rubber. I still use mine. I know yours is out there and all of the things. Final question. What is the most useless skill that you possess? The chair like yep nope that's me. I got this one. Yep. Okay I don't know if I could do it anymore so I don't even know if this counts but I would say like three years ago I could say the Greek alphabet forwards and backwards and under ten seconds that's like my very useless skill. That's fair. Don't ask me why it was just something that like I just like ran through is like one of my one of my stems was just like saying the Greek alphabet because it just rolls off the tongue. Oh my goodness. I mean that's a skill or a talent. Okay well thank you very much for coming on the show. I know I definitely learned a lot for our listeners upcoming synagogue classes in person and virtual on rady daddies electrical play body drumming are all coming up check the website for specific details but that's it. That's our show. Say goodnight little bit. Goodnight little bit. little bit.